Should I give a tip-sheet to colleagues?

Hi everyone,

Bad news on my experiment.

I think this is one of those things where being logical doesn't help. I've tried this now and it's made no positive difference: and possibly a negative one. There is a particular bully who has been on the attack, and she's now used the information against me (saying my communication is poor) rather than try to engage with any of the issues. (I've checked, and I know that's not the problem -- at least not in this case).

I think the problem is that we (as autistic people) can't understand the malevolence of some of the people who just don't like us. They don't want to understand: they just want a convenient scape goat for their own incompetence/laziness or person to take the brunt of their own emotional problems.

I'm not saying the idea is doomed: but I would never try to use it again to stave off problems. Maybe better as one of the other contributors suggested: just as a way to communicate with your boss or ally colleagues.

I feel a bit foolish right now: like I was trying to use logic and reason to get around my autism. I guess the point is that I don't really understand what I'm dealing with and so the logic and reason just doesn't apply.

On the plus side? I never would have thought that being in this community (i.e. your responses) would be so helpful and comforting. Although it's not helping me win the war at work necessarily, just writing this post is helping to calm me down.

Anyway, thanks everyone!

Hi everyone,

Bad news on my experiment.

I think this is one of those things where being logical doesn't help. I've tried this now and it's made no positive difference: and possibly a negative one. There is a particular bully who has been on the attack, and she's now used the information against me (saying my communication is poor) rather than try to engage with any of the issues. (I've checked, and I know that's not the problem -- at least not in this case).

I think the problem is that we (as autistic people) can't understand the malevolence of some of the people who just don't like us. They don't want to understand: they just want a convenient scape goat for their own incompetence/laziness or person to take the brunt of their own emotional problems.

I'm not saying the idea is doomed: but I would never try to use it again to stave off problems. Maybe better as one of the other contributors suggested: just as a way to communicate with your boss or ally colleagues.

I feel a bit foolish right now: like I was trying to use logic and reason to get around my autism. I guess the point is that I don't really understand what I'm dealing with and so the logic and reason just doesn't apply.

On the plus side? I never would have thought that being in this community (i.e. your responses) would be so helpful and comforting. Although it's not helping me win the war at work necessarily, just writing this post is helping to calm me down.

Anyway, thanks everyone!

Well done for giving it a go. It still sounds like you've done the right thing. My first thought, was that just saying 'communication is poor, is not helpful. Is it the way you talk? How you put your sentence together? Are a vague or do you not communicate information at all? This bully needs to clarify what aspect of communication is lacking so you have a chance to either find a way to improve or work around it, otherwise they are wasting your time.

Secondly, you've laid your cards on the table so you can help people you work with. If this person is then using that against you, they need to be brought to task. Keep a list and take it to your manager if it persists. Your company should have policies related to the grievance procedure, dignity at work, that sort of thing. It's worth having a look at your HR policies so you have a firm idea of what you need to do if it carries on. Hopefully it won't, but bullies will often get worse if they think they can get away with it. Best arm yourself with knowledge now rather than later.

rox4brains said:

I think the problem is that we (as autistic people) can't understand the malevolence of some of the people who just don't like us.

rox4brains said:

I feel a bit foolish right now: like I was trying to use logic and reason to get around my autism.

I know how you feel. I always approach things in a logical way and expect people to respond in kind, but most people are very illogical, and will lie, and in some cases be malicious. It is difficult for me to comprehend why, so it's a mistake that I keep making. I want the world to make sense but people don't make sense.

Thanks for giving the update. Sharing a letter like this is something I was considering but now I wonder if it would be a bad idea or potentially even cause me to be discriminated against (e.g. for promotion possibilities).

Sad to hear that the idea didn't bring positive results. It's just clicking with me how difficult it is sometimes after telling people what I need that it gets overlooked. Sometimes it's unavoidable, everyone can be stretched and there isn't always time to explain to me what's needed up front. Others it is completely so - and it's in those situations I'm likely to get frustrated - especially if I feel I've been put on the spot without a full brief.

As for the bully - people of this type always put me on the back foot (because I literally don't understand them or what motivates them). Even if it's not a paid role that's no excuse for any organisation not to have a process in place to support you if someone is mis-behaving.

The NCVO (National Council for Voluntary Organisations) has some advice which may help

https://www.ncvo.org.uk/ncvo-volunteering/if-volunteering-goes-wrong

rox4brains said:

feel a bit foolish right now: like I was trying to use logic and reason to get around my autism

Don't. You tried something to support people in supporting you. A social experiment which might well have worked in a different setting with different people. That takes guts - especially if it doesn't have the hoped for results. Kudos to you. An article in one of the national newspapers had someone who tried the same thing to see the results  (I'm annoyed I can't find the article to share with you - I'll keep looking). I don't see it as "getting round" your autism - I see what you tried as an experiment in helping people understand our world. Sometimes I feel like I speak a completely different language to NT's. 

My last frustration at work was in a conversation about a "grey area" with some information. Someone told me that they agreed with my rationale but the final decision we were making with it "didn't sit well with them". I lost it (offline) because I thought they were being difficult/lazy in rejecting my conclusion. Then I realised, eventually, that they were stuck at the emotional stage of the decision-making process - they hadn't figured out the rationale behind what - emotionally- they felt we should do. As my psychologist pointed out - sometimes I have to learn to pick up on where people are and learn how to take them with me - and I might not always be successful. I really need help sometimes understanding that - and I haven't plucked up the courage to ask for help with it, or even figured out who I could ask. 

It's weird. We're trying to find our way in a world that hasn't quite figured out how we think (and sometimes vice-versa) and there's a lot of different types of situations and exchanges to navigate. Exploring ways to try and bridge those gaps isn't easy and you have my admiration and respect for giving your idea a go.

Best.

E

It's their problem, not yours. I think you articulated yourself really well (you should've heard my verbal explanation to a colleague today - car crash) and if they're going to try to bully you then they must have very sad lives. 

Thanks so much Nigel! I do fight my corner. I had a similar situation in my main job which I fought. In the end, I lost status and responsibility. On the other hand, I no longer had to work directly with the person who bullied me (who has also bullied others), kept my job, and have found my niche away from the bully. So that's a win (I guess).

My current situation is different. I'm the secretary of an international society related to my field. The bully is also high-up in the organisation. Since it's not a paid role, no HR, no recourse. I've asked one of my colleagues to step in, but that's not really happening.

My understanding is that a lot of autistic people just give up and quit their jobs in these situations, which is why so many are un- or under-employed. I guess I'm really fortunate to have good support around me so that I can tough it out, but I really shouldn't have to. All of the people who have bullied me in the past have also gone on to bully others (including people who I know, for sure, are autistic). I think being autistic makes you a kind of "canary in the coal mine" when it comes to that.

Will fight on!

This is a real shame and upsetting to read about.

Exactly as you say - the malevolence of some of these people is hard to comprehend. I've encountered it myself when working in the NHS years ago. (You'd think the NHS would be more tolerant, but it's the opposite amongst their own staff.)

With respect I do not think you should put up with this bullying. It's also illegal. 

My neighbour's son (who has Asperger's) encountered repeated bullying from a manager while working at Sainsbury's few years ago. The manager was aware of his difficulties but deliberately and repeatedly assigned him tasks that were unsuitable for him, rather than make reasonable adjustments.

Following this, my neighbour contacted a charity called EmployAbility (google their website and contact details). They intervened and sent someone along to personally speak to his manager, and basically ripped them a new one. I understand it was most satisfying....!

If this was me in your situation, I'd note down the occurrences of bullying and have a written summary I could go discuss with either HR or a higher up manager. Also I'd consider ringing or emailing that charity for some advice.

As you say it is often difficult for us to understand what we are dealing with in these situations, but we can instead try and engage those who do understand and can fight for us.

Hope that didn't come across as patronising.... I just really despise bullying. Is it a manager or direct colleague doing this?

I guess a bully will always use whatever info they have against their victim, so there is not much you can do about it.

You started a great conversation and I am probably going to use something similar for my work where people are more open minded.