ASD v Narcissm

Just my husband of 15 years. 

Its onwards and upwards !

I do not like narcissists AT ALL!!  my brother is one, and my nepthews.

thye also have adhd which is even worse.  they also bullie me

Hi NAS50003 smileys and deleting them?

I find if the cursor is in front of one they don’t respond to delete?

try selecting or tapping directly on it, it should then have a box around it instead of in front, then hopefully able to Delete. Stubborn little things, they grin as they know it.

Oops! Re the smileys and sorry to hear that all your ex’s are terrible

I accidentally pressed the smileys and it won't delete them..oh well.

I'm not sure a counselor is qualified to diognoses NPD.

Il agree with u,   l would  definitely get s very  qualified second opinion.

Bring autistic is s world away from clinical NPD.

HI,

I don't want to invade another thread but am seriously interested in debunking theory of mind ideas.  How can Autism be a specturm,  theory of mind be binary (got it or not) and the two be equated?

NAS50581: I hope you get an answer you can trust and act on.  

They all are..

 ️

LOL it would be very funny if that song was written about nightmare ex’s, we can pretend it is I guess, but it’s actually written from the perspective of the Native American Indians when they were invaded/killed/repressed by European people’s. 

I assume your ex was terrible then?

Hi, I just wanted to ask if the counsellor is an expert in ASD as if they are not I would definitely get a second opinion from a professional in ASD - even go for an ASD assessment if possible.

Thank you all for your help and support which has been really useful. I am obviously going to have to do some serious thinking 

Hi Kitsun

That song is the song l tribute to my ex.

I wonder if that's what it's about.

X

I think everyone else on here has answered this better than I can but in short. Autism behaviour is due to different neurological wiring whereas Narcissistic personality disorder behaviour is due to choice. I’ve got that Iron Maiden song going through my head now “run for the hills, run for your lives” that’s with regards to NPD

Thank you sunflower for your reply and for all those as well that showed the clear definition between autism and narcissism .

your words had meaning to me, I haven’t yet been diagnosed but when I truly accepted within myself I was, I too battled with the notion I was narcissistic!

I question everything in my life, but when suddenly seeing many similarities leaning towards narcissism  it hurt me to even consider it possible. It was a member who posted a link which I have shared here in the past that gave me the understanding.

Sunflower said

“Many of us here on this forum who ended up being diagnosed with ASD agonised at one point or another over whether we might actually be narcissistic. I doubt that actual narcissists would have lost any sleep over this! There are similarities, but as Tom has pointed out there are profound differences too.”

To the OP please read up on it, don’t begin to believe for one moment he will change his ways if he is, the person saying he is and who wants to try and help him has no idea what he is talking about.

He needs to be seen by a true professional who can tell the difference. If he is autistic it will easily been noticed as in the differences pointed out by others on here, 

if he is indeed diagnosed then as narcissistic take others advice before it’s to late, run away,don’t ever stop to think your wrong, 

please look after yourself.

Hi. Im sorry youryy going through this.

Asperger's and autism are very different to narccisstic personality disorders.

I'm divorcing s covert narcissist. It's been hell and his behaviours are defined by cycles of behaviour

Living with s narcissist person leaves you with PTSD due to the act of deliberate atricion. 

They leave no one out of there dramas  victimhood, rages, dramas and martyrdom. 

I have a friend with severe Asperger's, there is a huge difference in behaviour and my friend does a lot of work on himself and has empathy, love and compassion for others.

A narc cannot take on the work to mend the broken self and usually deflects it onto the person closest to them. You have the problem..not them

They lie, deflect, rage, go cold (gaslight) , treat with distain and create horrible atmospheres.

In my opinion you will be living a miracle if the counselling works. Most counselors are not sufficient it dealing with this very serious personality disorders that can get very dangerous for the co dependant. A experienced psychatrist who had clinical experience should be consulted.

With shared counselling there is the opportunity for the narc to hold court and the in experienced counseler to be part of there game.of triangulation There very good at it. 

Yes some people on the autistic spectrum have narcissist  tentendcies. We all do..some more than others. But the difference with the narc is the lack of morality , compassion and empathy. 

A autistic person may react in s certain way due to a lower levels of understanding and not understanding social environments , behaviours and so on. 

The covert narc is able to  tactically play people like a game of chess.They can or can become sadistic and take delight in causing just not emotional turmoil to the other person but very severe consequences. I have been through this.

I've wasted 15 years of my life with someone who has done things and said things that l cannot mention on here.

Please to not take this diognoses lightly. It's very serious and you need to stop questioning yourself and do what you need to do. You need to read up on that condition..when a narc flips..and they can it usually hits the headlines.

You need to build boundaries and when they are  broken don't hang around to have the very life force drained from you.

  I may seem very severe but if he has been diagnosed you need to seriously consider if you want this or not. What kind of future where you planning?

Children will be adversely effected. Read up on the narc model and educate yourself. But this isn't s project you'll be able to walk away from years from now with a clean break. If you want to help people,  train as s psychotherapist but do not think for one second that you on your own can cope with this v dangerous diognoses.

Take care of yourself .x

If you are reading this and you are autistic please do not think for one moment you are a narccisist or sociopath .

You're just wonderful like my  daughter. and all those thousands of other people on the spectrum x

Thanks all for replies .There are a number of grey areas ... Yes the counsellor is a qualified experienced psychotherapist but he is unorthodox and definitely unprofessional in some ways. However my husband is controlling and the sexual assault thing is interesting as I think that has happened but dressed up as something else, in a quite manipulative way. Stonewalling -big time and gaslighting not really but frequently has accused me of being mad. I am on the AS spectrum myself but I am aware that I am manipulative so I suppose it's never totally straightforward. I am going to have to give it all some deep thought. Thanks and I will consider your comments in more depth when I calm down . At the moment I am feeling very confused 

Ermm...

i seem to get on well with those on the spectrum but not narcissists.  My OH is a narcissist. Bottom line my OH controlled me, manipulated me, used triangulation, techniques, stonewalling, sexual and physical assault, gaslighting etc . Does that sound like your husband...?

read more at the elephant journals.

https://www.elephantjournal.com/2016/03/the-secret-language-of-narcissists-how-abusers-manipulate-their-victims/

If he’s narcissistic- run

if he’s ASD - try and understand each other more

This must have come as a big shock. Is the counsellor you are seeing qualified to recognise or diagnose either ASD or NPD? Unlike psychology and psychiatry counselling is not a regulated profession so practitioners may not always have accredited training or operate according to appropriate professional standards. Suggesting a diagnosis for your husband strikes me as somewhat unethical. The most I would have expected a counsellor to say is that it might be worth seeking formal assessment in order to determine the most appropriate diagnosis as there may be more than one possibility. 

Many of us here on this forum who ended up being diagnosed with ASD agonised at one point or another over whether we might actually be narcissistic. I doubt that actual narcissists would have lost any sleep over this! There are similarities, but as Tom has pointed out there are profound differences too. I would try very hard to keep an open mind about your husband and your marriage until such time as there is clear evidence. Even with supposedly 'untreatable' conditions, such as some personality disorders, in my experience as a former social worker people often can, and do, change.

I doubt that a thorough assessment by an experienced and qualified clinical psychologist would result in a misdiagnosis of ASD or NPD. The questions they ask, the tests they do, and the observations they make are focused and specific. Reading first hand accounts of autistic/neurotypical relationships and marriages might help you to work out if what is happening in your marriage is likely to be due to an autism spectrum disorder. Autistic people often get other inappropriate labels attached to them before they are recognised as being autistic. Sadly insights into autism are still very limited and myths abound. 

Hi there,

Although there may be some similarities in regards to behaviours, there is actually a huge difference between narcissism and ASC (in my opinion).  The 'lack of empathy' issue is especially important here.  Much is said and misunderstood about the perceived lack of empathy with autistic people.  Much of this is to do with the way information is processed.  So, I might have someone burst into tears in front of me and I won't necessarily know how to respond.  Anyone else might hug the person, or give them some other form of comfort.  I would literally be frozen into inaction - which would make me appear cold and unempathetic.  The complete opposite is the case, however.  I have worked in care for many years.  I care very much about the welfare of others - especially vulnerable people.  The suffering of others - humans and animals - can affect me very deeply.  There is much that you may have read or heard, too, about 'theory of mind', with many 'experts' saying that autistic people lack 'theory of mind', which explains why they are unable to understand the feelings and emotions of others: essentially, to put themselves in another's shoes.  Again, this is more widely becoming recognised as being either an oversimplification or incorrect. You might find it interesting to check out the information on the 'double empathy' theory, which suggests that when people with very different experiences of the world interact, they may find it very difficult to empathise with one another.  This could be because of language and cultural differences.  It could also be because of differences of neurological wiring - i.e. neurotypical and neurodiverse.  As many people on this forum will testify, it is often incredibly difficult for us to figure out the behaviours, motives and emotional expressions of NTs; as difficult as it is for NTs to figure out the same with us.  The difference, of course, is that as NDs, we are very much in the minority.  It is much easier for NTs to find understanding and validation for their perceptions and responses because they have such a vast number of others to back up their positions.  Depending on what figures you read, only 1 in every 100 people has autism.  This is why so many of our behaviours and responses are regarded as 'impaired' or 'faulty' or 'inappropriate'.  In comparison to the majority, of course they are.  To us, they're not impaired or faulty at all.  They're perfectly consistent with the way we are wired to perceive, process and respond.  So much of autism care and 'support' has been focused on behaviour management.  Thankfully, attitudes are changing, and legitimacy is being accorded to those legitimate sensory issues.  It's a slow process, though.

The psychopathology of someone with NPD is quite different.  Narcissists are often deliberately manipulative people (something quite alien to autistics).  Narcissists, for instance, will use psychological tactics like 'gaslighting' to undermine the confidence and credibility of a target: to get them to doubt their own sanity and sense of reality.  And a narcissist won't care who they hurt, or the damage they do to others.  Much of their behaviour is rooted in deep personal insecurity, and they seek to undermine others as a way of boosting their own sense of credibility and self-worth.  An autistic person would not behave in such a deliberate and damaging fashion.  Although it can be a very difficult condition to live with (autism, that is), it is unlikely that any behaviours are deliberately designed to destabilise another person (which isn't to say that autistic people don't have negative behaviours and traits; we're all human!)

I could go on and there is an awful lot more I could say on the subject, having had several very nasty and damaging experiences at the hands of narcissists myself.  Has the counsellor explained how they have reached that decision?  Has your husband taken any tests (the AQ) to give an indication for your initial suspicion of ASC?  Does the counsellor have any real knowledge and experience of ASC?

You may find it interesting to check this information out on 'double empathy':

The double empathy problem

Also, there is a wealth of information out there on both ASC and NPD.  On the latter, you might find this video to be quite helpful:

Mind Games of Narcissists

You may also find this earlier thread to contain some useful information:

Autism and Narcissism

Tom