Autism and poverty

I think it's a flawed link & a lot of what's said does resonate with me. Poverty is a complex issue, but you're looking at it from the wrong angle in my opinion. I don't consider myself a problem in any way or that how my life turns out, or the lives of others, is anything down to me or other individuals. To me, the problem is society and this idea of conforming to what is normal. If we were all meant to be the same then we could have all just been created with the same DNA but we are all different. Those differences should be something we all should feel proud of but for far too long we've all fallen into the trap of continuing this dangerous cycle of following these perceived cultural and social stereotypes, which we ourselves have created. Therefore, I see the whole of society and the culture we've created to be the problem that needs to be fixed, which will provide the solution.

It's like when people tell me anxiety and depression mean I'm broken. My response is that anxiety and depression make me normal, it makes me who I am and it makes me different rather than broken. My brain is simply different, how biochemical reactions take place are different, etc. Mental Health issues are more prevalent than people like to admit at times, to the point that mental health issues are indeed normal if only we were all prepared to admit it but out of fear we all keep everything bottled up out of not wanting to conflict with our programmed ideas of social norms. I've had enough with social norms and it's about time we fought to challenge these ideas and preconceptions. Society and culture aren't static so my choice is to do what I can to challenge these things rather than simply conform to what feels like the accepted normal. I am normal for me. Now I simply need to do what I can to challenge other people to redefine what is normal.

I do consider myself poor and it is a strain with wondering what the future can hold. I grew up pushing myself, challenging myself, focusing on what I can do to improve myself, to fit in, to adapt. What I think more now is "Why did I have to do all the work of having to adapt to everyone else, why can't everyone just work towards accepting the differences?" Rather than classifying someone as weak or stupid for whatever reason, simply see them as different, a human being with a different set of skills and abilities, who with help, can achieve something whatever that may be, rather than giving up on them from the start because they don't conform to some stereotype. We're not machines or robots but human beings. I worked hard, I struggled, I got an education, which all sounds very similar to my parents. My parents worked hard, they struggled, they got an education, but they're now retired having done nothing wrong in their lives according to the idea of a government who will look after those who do the right thing, yet they just about scrape by with their pensions while my parents still work to boost their income while we live in my grandmother's house who is paying the bills. Fortunately, my grandmother does have money though the downside being that she's done nothing much to help sort out my mother in her will as her rich son (my Uncle) is considered the favourite. Ok, it's her choice if that's what she wants but I don't want to hear her talking about loving us when she's prepared to send her daughter into severe poverty to help her rich son.

Anyway, back to the point, I thought that my hard work and my ability would be an asset. Funny thing, I ended up going into Accountancy though with a lack of support I was only able to reach the final level of CIMA exams and was unable to complete it, especially when my employer did absolutely nothing about the 3 years relevant experience. Like others have stated, I put up a mask, tried to fit in, tried to appear normal, but in the end everything I did counted for nothing. I still feel like a failure for the situation I'm in but I know I'm not because it wasn't me that failed, it was my employer and society who failed me. If anything, everything I did could be considered extremely remarkable considering my starting point in life with the difficulties and challenges I had to face and struggle with where others may not have had the same determination and focus I had to keep pushing myself in the hopes of achieving success. I didn't go to work to make friends but believed that my hard work and ability would be recognised and rewarded. I'd say I was definitely recognised considering I was the 'go to' man for all sorts of things, even helping to train people who were above me in the structure, even at times being more able and qualified than them too. However, I believe that due to my lack of social skills, I was seen as someone to be feared and controlled rather than being presented with training, support and opportunities for progression. The culture of my work environment was built on division, fear, deception and manipulation where social networks counted for everything due to the nature of office politics where people want their closest allies next to them to back them up. That wasn't me or my style, for me the priority was the work and the organisation.

I only got diagnosed when I was 32 while I was at that job. All I know is that after that, I was just starting to reflect on life in a different way as I had spent my entire life focusing on the idea of conforming to what I though society expected: to get educated, get a job, build a career, be successful. This is what my time growing up had programmed me to believe because I knew I had the ability and skills to be successful but others around me prevented me from getting there. It felt like I had spent so long focusing on trying to get through the wall in front of me, doing everything I could think of to get through it but it wouldn't budge. I just started to evaluate my life, what was the point of it all, so getting a bit philosophical and the like really. I came to the conclusion that this idea of gauging life success through career achievement and salary was meaningless to a degree because I had set myself up to fail due to the fact that the system I was trying to make progress in wasn't prepared to let me continue. I was prepared to give up on the idea and settle for a simple finance job at work, which would have meant earning enough to pay the bills so that I could focus on other things. I just realised that I was getting older, I was being discriminated against, the profession was competitive with a constant flow of new entrants, I was stuck between effectively being overqualified and skilled for the entry level jobs to restart my career, which was extremely competitive, but I didn't have the opportunities, support, skills, knowledge, etc. to really progress and thrive in taking the next step in my career.

Shortly after that, my employer made me reach my limit, by even taking that simple finance job away from me in an organisational restructure where I was forced into a job I didn't want on a permanent basis. To me, it was them effectively sending the message that this was it for me and that they would put me where they wanted me to be, which was out the way and with no chance of anything beyond it. I finally broke but I had built up my own reserves of strength and resilience because I would not allow them to beat me. There's only one person who can beat me and that's me, if I had given up that would have meant giving up on myself and letting them win, letting them walk all over me and allowing them to do it. I walked out even though it would mean giving up everything I had built up in life and gambling on the unknown of what would come next. If anything though, it makes me realise what my parents went through when I was growing up and everything since then had taught me about what it meant to not give up and to keep struggling even when things were bad. If anything, it's that mentality and drive which allowed me to remain with that employer for as long as I did.

By leaving, it lifted a huge weight off my shoulders and gave me the time and space to think about my life and lots of other things. I had fallen into the same trap and had ended up believing that it was the way I had to live, which then limited me and my options. I'm not exactly saying I have loads of options in life right now but I understand what's at stake with a society, culture and system that is built to fail so many people. So, I state once again, this doesn't have to be the way things are, we can change it and we should all be striving to do so. Just like we in the UK have recently celebrated that some women gained the right to vote 100 years ago, the fight for change, for equality, for fairness, for justice is a fight that we must all do our part in rather than accepting that the way things are is the way they must remain. It will take time for change to take place but we must not let these same cycles continue on.

Thank you so much for your thoughts on this.  It all sounds very familiar and yes, I would say that the associated depression, anxiety and addiction I have seen in my family (plus experienced myself) are entirely understandable responses to adverse experiences.  Whether we would have been so vulnerable to the effects of these experiences if we'd been neurotypical is debatable but I think what we've been through is more of a reflection on society than on us.  And it does need to change. 

Toxic working practices are presumably toxic to everyone to some degree and, in losing the ND thinkers, there is, I think, a significant loss to organisations and the economy.

The prospect of poverty does worry me though.  I was squeezed out of my own accountancy role due to a final reorganisation which, curiously, left me and my job share singled out for involuntary redundancy.  Subtext - "We'll make sure we get rid of those ND part-timers this time around".  Everyone else in the department (including many who were less qualified) stayed.  

My reflections on autism and poverty have therefore mainly sprung from the question, " Why does this keep happening to us?"  But I totally accept that the link is indirect at best and cultural and structural changes are what's really needed.  

Some interesting points made in the above two posts but I disagree. The only thing we can change is ourselves, from the inside, and then as a natural consequence, the outsides change, including society. As Ghandi said, be the change you want to see in the world. What is ‘society’ other than a bunch of individuals, each responsible for himself, yet most giving their power away by confirming to the ‘norm’, without so much as questioning what they do. But just because the majority of people do that, it doesn’t make it right or that we have to follow suit also. I know I don’t. I’m still finding my way but I refuse to live a life that doesn’t serve me because I can’t serve others from an empty pot. All we ever need to do is change ourselves. All the rest falls into place after that. 

Some interesting points made in the above two posts but I disagree. The only thing we can change is ourselves, from the inside, and then as a natural consequence, the outsides change, including society. As Ghandi said, be the change you want to see in the world. What is ‘society’ other than a bunch of individuals, each responsible for himself, yet most giving their power away by confirming to the ‘norm’, without so much as questioning what they do. But just because the majority of people do that, it doesn’t make it right or that we have to follow suit also. I know I don’t. I’m still finding my way but I refuse to live a life that doesn’t serve me because I can’t serve others from an empty pot. All we ever need to do is change ourselves. All the rest falls into place after that. 

The way I see and experience the world, there is only one self so focusing on the self is the only thing we can do. To do anything else, is to focus on an external illusion, which of course, will never really change anything. 

I don’t think money is power, far from it. Like everything else, money is neutral and only takes on meaning when we give it meaning. It can certainly be used in powerful ways, for good or evil, but money itself, has no power. 

Change is a constant in the external/physical world as things come into existence, live out their life span and then die, but some things never change and when we adhere to those things, we can achieve and have anything we want, because that’s where the power lies. 

Yes, I agree, it is often easier to swim with the current but I’m not necessarily looking for an easy life and I’m not looking for acceptance where there isn’t any, or to change the world to go along with me. 

I had the same experience as you, as I think many of us have had, in that when we play the part, we get by but if we stop playing the part, we get excluded. So I take exclusion over trying to fit it, which isn’t necessarily easier, but it’s more rewarding. 

When I changed my inner world, for example, when I started to accept myself, the whole world started changing. Not in the way that the whole world suddenly began to accept me but in the way that it suddenly mattered much less, whether they did or they didn’t. And I started to see the world in a much clearer way. Clear enough to compel me to live my life in a way that serves me, regardless of whether that requires me to swim against the current. 

I certainly relate to putting in colossal effort for a diminishing return. But in the end, my colossal breakdown, due to my collosal effort, was my radical breakthrough. I realised that I was a square peg and that I’ll never fit in to a round hole, so now I don’t even try. Instead I’m working on how I fit in, in a way that serves me instead of draining me. I haven’t figured it out yet but I’m working on it and the less I try, the closer I get. I guess my attempts at trying are still embedded in the neurotypical mindset, which I now realise, isn’t necessarily right and that my way isn’t necessarily wrong, it just goes against the majority grain. 

It’s certainly not easy, finding my way, but neither was fitting in and this way, at least I get some rewards. I only started down the road to self acceptance when I got my diagnosis, so self acceptance wasn’t previously available to me, seeing as how I didn’t know who I was. But now I do, social acceptance doesn’t really play such a big role as I’ve learned that I can’t make people accept me and if they don’t, I don’t have to take on their non acceptance or let it effect my self acceptance. 

I don't think I stated that we shouldn't strive to change ourselves. Change is a constant and I have changed because I am definitely not the person I once was.

However, based on how I seem to be trying to interpret what you're saying, I disagree with you if you're stating that we should only focus on ourselves. You're indicating that changing oneself internally equates to changing external factors. If all I did was focus on only myself I would never take steps towards changing those external factors. I would happily say that no single person has the power to change those external factors but if collectively we acknowledge that we want to change those things then we can. If that's what you're trying to indicate then I would agree with you because the first step is to acknowledge the need for change to happen and then each of us seeking to try and  exert that will collectively on the society around us.

I can't serve others if I only serve myself or what I feel are expectations that have been placed on me in order to live some sort of life that conforms to such expectations. I can serve others if I work with others to become a driver to create a process of change because without focusing on others I will never be able to drive change. If you're trying to say that money is power then that's only because we choose to collectively give away our power to those with money. However, it doesn't mean that we can't make a choice to change that and by focusing on others I can discuss, debate and help others go through a process of realising that they too don't have to be limited by these norms we're practically programmed to believe because together as a collective we can seek to change things through collective power.

I doubt we'd be the country we are today if throughout our country's history, everyone only focused on themselves and didn't try to use what they could to drive the changes that have actually taken place.

Yes, be the change you want to see in the world.  But don't expect the world to suddenly realise where it's wrong and go along with you.  I 'changed' myself by dropping a lot of the pretences once I got my diagnosis.  But the 'outside' didn't change.  The 'outside' didn't fall into place.  If anything, it hardened its stance.  If anything, it became more difficult to deal with.  As long as I was playing the part they wanted me to play, I was alright.  As soon as I stopped doing that, they didn't just accept it and change to accommodate me.  A fish who swims against the current doesn't persuade the other fish to do the same if it's easier for them to swim with the current.  And if the majority of the other fish are swimming with the current, too.

I agree, too.  I can't even be accepted for being 'myself' working for a charity that specialises in autism care.  I'm still expected to be something I'm not in order to fit in.

I agree with everything you have just said Jenny. We need collective action and solidarity to stand any hope of achieving change. Individuals are quickly overwhelmed by the scale of the challenge and the strength of the opposition they face. 

It's a difficult one but in recent years I've been quite shocked at the colossal effort I had to put in just to get mediocre returns in life.  Ultimately I could say that they were diminishing returns and it was all taking its toll on my health.

Perhaps, though, I was attempting to change in all the wrong ways when actually a measure of self acceptance would have been the best start and given me a strong foundation on which to build.  This wasn't something that was encouraged either at school or in various office systems of deadlines, targets, performance reviews and appraisals, in which each role may as well have been cut from the same block because they actually seemed to want the same type of person every time.  And little of the personal and professional development I engaged in made a difference because a square peg doesn't fit into a round hole, even if it has really tried and perhaps almost convinced itself it is round.  

So, yes, my efforts probably went in the wrong direction, but basically out of desperation and the need to make a living.  Greater self acceptance would have helped, but it feels closely intertwined with societal acceptance anyway.  I'm not sure I have much individual power.  Basically whenever I presented as myself, I got rejected.  And being accepting and encouraging of others in the workplace (the change I wanted to see) got me criticised for favouring "soft skills."  But if my own individual efforts could be added in with others then collectively we could be the agents of change and bring those natural consequences a little closer.  To that extent I can be the change.