Autism and poverty

Looking back over my childhood and considering various experiences within my wider family, I can trace not only what I believe to be the "path of autism" but also a fair amount of poverty, to varying degrees. 

Now I'm not suggesting that there's a straightforward link between autism and poverty - certainly I can see many positives to my neurodivergent mind which have enabled me to make a fair living over the years - but the patterns do seem intertwined.  I can see lots of issues with anxiety, depression and addiction too but increasingly I suspect these might be related to undiagnosed (and therefore unsupported) autism.  The patterns seem to involve difficulties in the workplace (choosing and staying in jobs), education (especially higher education where independence and social factors seems to become increasingly important), accessing healthcare and applying for benefits (a stressful process in itself).  

During my teenage years in particular, we went through a lot of poverty and our living conditions were quite poor, to the extent that we didn't dare invite people round and our social isolation became ever worse.  Dad did what work he could, but was trapped in a low paying job and neither of my parents had much knowledge of the benefits system (I was quite shocked recently when my now elderly mother said that we probably could have claimed something to help).  

And going back a generation, my grandmother's house was something of a disaster.  No housework ever done, not much with which to do it, no repairs carried out, not much washing, a LOT of hoarding, alcohol consumption and gambling.  It was like that with my uncles too, although they were very intelligent people and obviously quite talented in many ways.  

Is this all necessarily to do with autism?  Probably not.  But I'm suspicious.  Especially now that my sons are having major difficulties making their way in the world and a lot of our money seems to go on false starts in education and work.  There's some good stuff in there too no doubt, but I'm worried.

Any thoughts?     

Parents
  • I realised I was very different to everyone else at around the age of 12. I spend a lot of time measuring and comparing people and creating data banks of behaviours - so I deduced that extroverts do better than introverts.

    I deliberately created a false personality of confident 'super-extrovert'.

    I had spotted that extroverts are just accepted and rarely need to give reasons or explanations for their actions because people just accept that they are 'unusual'.

    I learned a few guitar chords and how to cheat on keyboards enough to look brilliantly competent and formed a school band - did a few gigs, got well known. That seemed to open lots of doors because my personality became bigger than the hidden real me. My fake extrovert out-going personality sparkles at interviews 

    My eidetic memory meant I could appear to be better than reality. I crave data so I will volunteer for anything for the experience. I have no limits or boundaries or inhibitions. More data = more knowledge & more experiences so my personality got even bigger.

    My personality and experience got me into good jobs and my memory made me look briliant.- I bacame the 'go to' person for solutions to everyone's problems.

    I think my experience shows that you can get a lot further with a fake confident personalty than tons of qualifications.

  • Being male helps - now try this as a woman? You'll be stoned to death in 10 seconds.

  • Sorry, that was kinda rude but it hits a nerve ;) I understand camouflage very well and I use similar strategies to you - I'm hyperlexic and have also used intelligence and skills acquisition to mask AS, I've studied symbolic systems and read around AS enough to 'reverse engineer' NT thinking so I can work around it better. But, believe me, gender is a huge issue here. This kind of 'big' personality goes down well in men, but just have a look on twitter to see how extrovert or opinionated women are treated? I'm trying to learn not to react with counter-aggression to cover my anxiety and uncertainty - not knowing how to act. People think it's because they're clever or 'creative' when men live in barely furnished chaos but I'm expected to have Doris Day's home full of 'feminine touches' <barf> I get around some of it as I'm gay but other lesbians also have ridiculous ideas of what a woman should be. I'm so &*(%£!!!!! sick of hearing what a woman should be. My camouflage is designed to make people shut up and leave me alone in the shortest possible time because that seems to be the best I can hope for. Obviously, that's not a fantastic strategy to get on at work. I get away with it because I make the trains run on time and tick all the boxes but things build up, I start to meltdown at work, and I leave the job. On to the next job and run the cycle again.

  • I know exactly what you mean.

    My AS means I don't recognise social norms - I figured out how humans (NTs) work and I measure how they react to situations so I choose to mimic most of the time to fit in. My memory meant I had a huge palette of behaviours to select from - but it's always a faked response to appear 'normal'.

    I function very much along the lines of a modern AI programme so there's always a higher level internally measuring the inputs and selecting appropriate responses (a bit like The Numskulls from The Beano comic).

    I can't process fast enough to keep up with the subtleties of interactions with women so I drop into 'nice guy' mode which appears supportive and happy to listen to their problems. I don't spot/react to their flirting so I'm an enigma or challenge for them. They seem to find this very attractive.

    I've always worked in engineering - all the guys are typical homophobic gorillas afraid of their own sexuality. I always stood apart from them in every way from the way I dress (always smart) to the way I behave (always 'correct'). I can outstrip them on any technical subject but I throttle it down to match their level by introducing small deliberate errors so I'm included in their conversations about cars or bikes or whatever.

    It's only when they start getting very specific about tiny details that they start to realise I know way more than they do - about everything. This makes them uneasy and I can feel them labelling me as a threat.

    This takes about 18 months. This starts to build the resentment and fear of their own individual incompetence so by 3 years they all feel weak & challenged. (Ash/Bishop/Mr Data has been recognised).

    By 4 years, the manager is scared of me too. Men are such pathetic, fragile weaklings.

    I'm lucky that my 'real' boss has been the work I do - so I'm mostly left alone to do my thing and just get on with performing engineering miracles.

    I left work 3 years ago so I can mostly be myself. I try to go to coffee mornings to continue human interaction because I want to maintain some level of being 'normal' but I find them all so boring. My technical interests belong to the previous generation (but they are all too old) and my personal interests are teenager things (so I'm too old). My generation don't interest me.

  • Ah yes, I know an AS guy I work with who has a similar persona to what you describe, I get on with him. I also seem to get on ok with gay men (I'm gay). I can't really work out how straight NT men see me other than I got a lot of unwelcome attention from them when I was young and a lot of criticism and aggression throughout.

    When I work in tech I understand what to do but NT men are pretty hostile and there are few women; when I work in digital/film/arts people are more accepting and there are lots of women but it's harder to understand what I should be doing - fuzzy and illogical. I can never work out which I prefer. Lesbians usually carp that I think 'like a man'.

    Honestly, I have no clue how people see me other than analytical, cold, difficult, 'mannish' etc. But also unusually tolerant apparently. And I'm told people think I'm charismatic when I'm not stressed or bored (but mostly I'm both bored and stressed at work).

    When I was young I was somewhere between an android and a ball of freaky exposed nerve endings lurching from breakdown to breakdown, but in 70s/80s bohemian circles the latter wasn't unusual - although stupid ideas about women were endemic so the former went down like a lead balloon. In my 30s and 40s in academia I affected world-weary intellectual cynicism which seemed to work well in getting people to shut up and leave me alone. Now I'm just tired of it, mostly I disclose and just let them patronise at will, I'm pretty much past caring.

    The minute I retire I suspect I'll cease all pretention to normality and wander round in my pyjamas talking to myself - let the NTs eat cake!

  • I can see it might be tricky as a woman . My facade is always a happy, smiley 'nice chap' so people accept me on face value - I present no obvious threat or challenge. It's only when thery find out what I'm capable of that the get scared and paranoid about their own incompetence. Manager's grow to fear my abilities are way in excess of their own.

    I think it takes about 4 years in a job before the fear of my technical abilities and my lack of emotion disturb the management. Sort of like having a synthetic person (like Bishop from Alien) in their midst.

    In a social setting, I can be seen by men as a data-bank/know-all threat. Women see me as a non-threatening, understanding, good listener - sort of their best gay friend (I'm straight).

Reply
  • I can see it might be tricky as a woman . My facade is always a happy, smiley 'nice chap' so people accept me on face value - I present no obvious threat or challenge. It's only when thery find out what I'm capable of that the get scared and paranoid about their own incompetence. Manager's grow to fear my abilities are way in excess of their own.

    I think it takes about 4 years in a job before the fear of my technical abilities and my lack of emotion disturb the management. Sort of like having a synthetic person (like Bishop from Alien) in their midst.

    In a social setting, I can be seen by men as a data-bank/know-all threat. Women see me as a non-threatening, understanding, good listener - sort of their best gay friend (I'm straight).

Children
  • I know exactly what you mean.

    My AS means I don't recognise social norms - I figured out how humans (NTs) work and I measure how they react to situations so I choose to mimic most of the time to fit in. My memory meant I had a huge palette of behaviours to select from - but it's always a faked response to appear 'normal'.

    I function very much along the lines of a modern AI programme so there's always a higher level internally measuring the inputs and selecting appropriate responses (a bit like The Numskulls from The Beano comic).

    I can't process fast enough to keep up with the subtleties of interactions with women so I drop into 'nice guy' mode which appears supportive and happy to listen to their problems. I don't spot/react to their flirting so I'm an enigma or challenge for them. They seem to find this very attractive.

    I've always worked in engineering - all the guys are typical homophobic gorillas afraid of their own sexuality. I always stood apart from them in every way from the way I dress (always smart) to the way I behave (always 'correct'). I can outstrip them on any technical subject but I throttle it down to match their level by introducing small deliberate errors so I'm included in their conversations about cars or bikes or whatever.

    It's only when they start getting very specific about tiny details that they start to realise I know way more than they do - about everything. This makes them uneasy and I can feel them labelling me as a threat.

    This takes about 18 months. This starts to build the resentment and fear of their own individual incompetence so by 3 years they all feel weak & challenged. (Ash/Bishop/Mr Data has been recognised).

    By 4 years, the manager is scared of me too. Men are such pathetic, fragile weaklings.

    I'm lucky that my 'real' boss has been the work I do - so I'm mostly left alone to do my thing and just get on with performing engineering miracles.

    I left work 3 years ago so I can mostly be myself. I try to go to coffee mornings to continue human interaction because I want to maintain some level of being 'normal' but I find them all so boring. My technical interests belong to the previous generation (but they are all too old) and my personal interests are teenager things (so I'm too old). My generation don't interest me.

  • Ah yes, I know an AS guy I work with who has a similar persona to what you describe, I get on with him. I also seem to get on ok with gay men (I'm gay). I can't really work out how straight NT men see me other than I got a lot of unwelcome attention from them when I was young and a lot of criticism and aggression throughout.

    When I work in tech I understand what to do but NT men are pretty hostile and there are few women; when I work in digital/film/arts people are more accepting and there are lots of women but it's harder to understand what I should be doing - fuzzy and illogical. I can never work out which I prefer. Lesbians usually carp that I think 'like a man'.

    Honestly, I have no clue how people see me other than analytical, cold, difficult, 'mannish' etc. But also unusually tolerant apparently. And I'm told people think I'm charismatic when I'm not stressed or bored (but mostly I'm both bored and stressed at work).

    When I was young I was somewhere between an android and a ball of freaky exposed nerve endings lurching from breakdown to breakdown, but in 70s/80s bohemian circles the latter wasn't unusual - although stupid ideas about women were endemic so the former went down like a lead balloon. In my 30s and 40s in academia I affected world-weary intellectual cynicism which seemed to work well in getting people to shut up and leave me alone. Now I'm just tired of it, mostly I disclose and just let them patronise at will, I'm pretty much past caring.

    The minute I retire I suspect I'll cease all pretention to normality and wander round in my pyjamas talking to myself - let the NTs eat cake!