Hans Asperger

That is a good question. The issue is now political football.

What the medical profession refer to it is one thing, but what the media and society refer to it is another. The medical profession might end up with a lengthy and descriptive term for AS referring to it being on the autism spectrum whilst AS remains a recognised popular or colloquial term for the condition. If the term AS is banished from the mainstream media, and ultimately society, then what term replaces it could have far reaching consequences.

I do not think that the mainstream media has been particularly favourable towards people with AS by labelling them as computer hackers and the like. The longer term outcome of Herwig Czech (which unlike Lorna Wing, Uta Frith, Tony Attwood, or even Luke Jackson has quite frankly done nothing for people with any form of ASD) remains to be seen but it will also be determined whether large ASD groups like the NAS stand their ground or buckle under pressure of the media and society in order to protect their image and reputation. Are they going to purge Hans Asperger's name from their literature?

So what definition should take its place then? Should we go back to 'childhood' schizophrenia' as it was called before the 80's. Borderline autism? PDD Nos, or just HFA?

I mean those who may be verbal, gifted, but who may otherwise end up having a bad time on the school playground and who might not do well at interviews - not disabled in the way autism can look when it is lining up cars snd head banging, but might without some kind of understanding, might end up drawing the short straw in life, in all kinds of ways?

David said:

I do understand the advantage of keeping the label Asperger Syndrome as some people might not accept the word Autistic but I think it is not right now we know that Hans Asperger was really a War criminal.

This raises an overarching question in science and medical ethics whether a person needs to have a squeaky clean past in order that they are honoured for their achievements and their name goes down in history?

To cite a hypothetical example. Imagine a middle aged person who came up with a major discovery in physics then published a paper on it. Their name then goes down in history. A year or so later somebody finds out that the same person has had a string of criminal convictions since their childhood including burglary, arson, fraud, and assaulting a police officer and the wife of (another) police officer resulting in multiple prison sentences along with an alleged involvement in a terrorist plot that is under investigation. That person will go from being a hero to a zero in the mainstream media but should they still be credited for their scientific discovery and have it named after them or are they too repugnant an individual?

We should stop saying “Asperger.” It’s one way to honor the children killed in his name as well as those still labeled with it. - Edith Sheffer

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/03/31/opinion/sunday/nazi-history-asperger.html

I'm concerned that this book could be the most prominent watershed in the evolution of AS and psychology in general since the publication of Uta Frith's book in 1991. The biggest difference is that Uta Frith is from the medical profession and set out to first and foremost publicise a medical condition rather than honour a person. Edith Sheffer is an historian who appears to have first and foremost written a book to vilify a person and obliterate his name from both formal use and respectable conversation.

It's possible that Asperger Syndrome could become an offensive term like referring to people with Down's Syndrome as a Mongol.

David said:

By your argument it would have been difficult to try the *** at Nuremburg who used the defence obeying orders as those on the allied side were not put in this position and many people in the air force obeyed orders to bomb civilians.

This you state above is your argument.

You asked me if I would have obeyed orders as Hans Asperger did ~ on the basis of what other people might think all big and shame.

And I essentially stated I live in the hear and now version of reality, and not the elsewhere and otherwise version of mentality ~ such as also for example:

David said:

if you are a thief up before Court it would not be a defence to tell the Judge and Jury you were never in my position of being short of money.

Churchill was a man of war not a man of peacetime. You could argue that the Labour landslide in the 1945 general election was an epitome of ingratitude towards the Conservative dominated government that won the war, but the public knew that Churchill was a mediocre peacetime politician at his best and they did not want a return to the 1930s.

Will existing books about AS now become socially unacceptable publications a bit like videos of horror films before unsavoury parts were not edited out of them following the 1984 Video Recordings Act? Such uncut films are officially illegal to sell.

If Hans Asperger really did co-operate with the ***, then:

1. Why did he not appear at the Nuremberg Trials?

2. Why was he not hunted down by Mossad for assassination like some *** who fled to South America after WW2?

His Wikipedia page has been updated recently and now he is listed under the category of Austrian ***.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hans_Asperger

Many references are lifted from the mainstream media which is not a reliable source of information.

Do any officials from the NAS update this Wikipedia page?

I would like to add that it is no more a Jewish issue than the Kurt Waldheim issue.  Kurt Waldheim was accused of killing Serbs and Yugoslavs  not Jews.  Kurt Waldheim was  president of Austria but not allowed to visit many countries as he was in disgrace.      Hans Asperger was accused of sending disabled children to their death in a clinic not of  killing Jews.  If that is the case I expect the powers that be will decide that we cannot have a syndrome after Asperger.  May be it will be named after Lorna Wing.

I will remind you all that the whole world was against Nazi Germany not just the Jews.   Up until 1981 the world did not want to recognise the scientific work done in Nazi Germany.   I do not know if Hans Asperger saved anyone.  His clinic was bombed.  I also do not know if his patients would have been killed if they had not had a diagnoses.

  Someone said that he was not helped by the NAS.  I thought the idea was that people with Asperger Syndrome get extra help in main stream schools. I did go to main stream schools and had a bad time at Private Schools I went to but I left school in 1973  about 45 years ago so I do not know first hand what happens in schools nowadays.

It's not just the Guardian. Almost every English language news outlet has latched onto the publication of the paper. It's gone viral. I can't help thinking that Herwig Czech has friends in the media.

David said:

They have stopped  using the label in the USA

And why should ONE country dictate to the rest of the world which label should be used? A country that is almost alone in measuring temperature in fahrenheit instead of celsius. A country that uses different sized nuts and bolts from the rest of the world that are hard to find replacements in Britain. Don't even get me started about the bizarre election system for the US president where Trump wins despite more people voting for Clinton, or software patents that don't apply in any other country.

The US really is a weird country that seems to have a passion for doing things differently from the rest of the world. I can't understand why so many Americans are so opposed to dollar coins.

Cassandro said:

Pretty much everyone previously with an AS diagnosis would under DSM-V be seen as 'ASD Level 1', that is requiring support, but not substantial support.

I disagree with this. I did not get an ounce of support myself from my school or local authority and ended up having to be home educated. The NAS was totally useless as all they could do was send information packs repeating what is already well documented on the internet and in readily available books. Experience revealed that the NAS services were largely restricted to special schools for more severe cases of traditional autism and residential care services.

The needs of people with AS are different from those with traditional Kanner autism, not different and not less important. Many families are having to provide support out of their own pockets because nothing is available for them.

DSM is American and does not officially apply in Britain.

Cassandro said:

Herwig Czech is a historian, and the motivation is presumably being researching history.

The question is why does he spend 8 years of his life painstakingly researching this? What are his motives?  Is he working under the paymasters of anti-*** or even certain Jewish communities?

Although I cannot prove this, the recent research by Steve Silberman that concluded Kanner was aware of the existence of Asperger and his research I could not help thinking that knowledge of Asperger has circulated deep within certain Jewish communities and fraternal organisations for decades and they have made efforts to bury him until Uta Frith released her book in 1991.

http://community.autism.org.uk/f/miscellaneous-and-chat/11628/rewriting-autism-history/61226

I doubt that Herwig Czech has finished his research. He could even be testing the water with his paper and have another paper pending publication that could completely and utterly destroy Hans Asperger by putting him on the same level as Heinrich Himmler.

David said:

Yes it might be true that Hans Asperger saved some Autistic people at the higher functioning end.

It is not the case that it 'might be true', as it is on official records and on account of which reported by researchers and authors as being true, and those with higher functioning autism are on record as being discharged to family members, other institutions and so fourth. Czech's paper at very least covers this matter.

David said:

I have sent  E Mails to Carol at the NAS my views.  I do not think we can do anything in this forum.  I will not tolerate Anti-Semitic personal remarks and I will E Mail the moderator

Being Anti-Semitic means being 'hostile to or prejudiced against Jews' ~ which has no relationship with or relevance to anything written to you here by others or myself.

Continued prejudice (preconceived opinion that is not based on reason or actual experience) is not becoming of an NAS community member, and this issue has been addressed with you politely several times over by other community members, including again here quite frankly now by myself.

David said:

I do not think the Police would do anything as they would say Deepthought is Autistic and does not know what offence his remarks can cause.

No, the Police would do nothing unless you kept on pushing them to do so, which would then involve them having to prevent you from doing as much.

Contact an NAS Moderator to confirm this, perhaps.

Or ~ be compassionate with yourself, and show respect for others :-)

No it was a general comment.  It is a bit like arguing in a railway carriage as it does not make any difference what we say whether the label Asperger continues.  They have stopped  using the label in the USA and it is going out of use elsewhere  anyway regardless of what we say.  You are right that Autistic and so called NTs can hate as well.  I do not want to be told that I do not need to use it as it is not important whether what I call myself.

David said:

The final decision on whether Asperger Syndrome  continues is not up to us so it is no good getting emotional or giving personal advice that we can decide not to use it..

I never did this...was your reply definitely meant for me David, because my comments in this part of the thread were not about using the name Asperger’s Syndrome.

Kanner emigrated to the USA in 1924 so he was out of it.  The final decision on whether Asperger Syndrome  continues is not up to us so it is no good getting emotional or giving personal advice that we can decide not to use it..  Another thing wrong with Asperger Syndrome is that the NAS leaflets give characteristics of not knowing what other people are thinking well any human can be not aware of what other people are thinking or be over insistent.  Another rumour is that Asperger people always get on together that is not true.  I have difficulties nothing to do with Autism such as not being able to recognise people and places and getting lost easily.  Some Asperger people could be used by the German army as they have an eye for detail.  I for one do not so they might have killed me even if I was not Jewish.  I would not mind if the powers that be call it Wing Syndrome after Lorna Wing who imported it..

Yes and no to be fair - neurotypical people certainly display this characteristic often, but I also know neurodiverse people who hate others for whatever reason. Some people just appear to innately enjoy hating other people...

I have just discovered (entirely by accident) that there is a book just three days away from publication. The author is Edith Sheffer. 'Asperger's Children: The Origins of Autism in Nazi Vienna'.

https://www.amazon.com/Aspergers-Children-Origins-Autism-Vienna/dp/0393609642/ref=mt_hardcover?_encoding=UTF8&me=

A very brief preview read indicates that the author has been in contact with Czech. I also briefly noted that she has a son diagnosed Asperger's, but it would appear both parent and son question that label's usefulness somewhat. I have read Czech's paper twice, but still haven't really found myself too much at odds with either the author or his subject. That might work out the same with this book, I imagine. I probably will try to read it, but not perhaps too soon. Having already had some contact with folks who question the label of a diagnosis on the spectrum, I kind of reckon this book also probably isn't really going to change my outlook that much; although there may well be some benefits from critiquing certain stereotypes.