Not understanding how I feel? - Part 2; What others interpret

Wikipedia has been shown to be more accurate than the Encyclopedia Brittanica.

And yes, the tongue-in-cheek smiley (or at least character representation of it) is mentioned (though it doesn't really explain it).

Just treat it as cypher, like a heiroglyph, why it means what it means is unimportant.

Why does '0' mean 'zero'?

Wikipedia...............

Does Wiki explain the smily's connection with tongue in cheek?

Many people compete to see how long they can get a spoof entry into wiki without it being spotted. I know of one tall tale that wasn't spotted for three years.

Anonymous said:

Tongue-in-cheek is a phrase used as a figure of speech to imply that a statement or other production is humorously intended and it should not be taken at face value.

Using a dictionary and/or thesaurus to work out what another person is 'actually saying' is pointless because most people don't use words and phrases according to there dictionary meaning.

And, yes, that makes it doubly confusing to us on the Spectrum, so that's why I try to work out what people mean by what they say, not what the dictionary/thesaurus says they mean by what they say (particularly as those often give a historical, rather than modern, interpretation).

Without wishing to drift off Goatworshiper's original thread, haven't you just proved that smilies don't work for people on the spectrum (or for that matter Social Stories, until you've learned them !!!).

"Biting your tongue" is an action of restraint on your tongue because you know that you are using your tongue falsely. Hence "tongue in cheek", precisely where you'd bite it. Double metaphor.

This is where having Roget's Thesaurus close at hand is a useful tool for people on the spectrum. It lists other meanings, and helps you work out what the NTs are really on about.

Hence "tongue in cheek" appears in 616.5 along with words like "insincerity" and in 616.32 "insincere". It definately doesn't mean "only joking".

The problem is with smilies is that some of them attempt to symbolise language/metaphor rather than emotion. A smiley is a smiling face (though it can also indicate unprescribed medication!). What is a tongue hanging out to one side? Your interpretation may not be anone else's.

Clear demonstration why smiley's can be confusing to people on the spectrum, as well as a warning to those well intentioned social services/psychology people who think little pictures will help us socially integrate. It might seem sensible to NTs........

longman said:

Oh and smilies - wasn't there another thread on that? - I don't understand them. What exactly does tongue out to one side mean?

There are a number of interpretations (of course!) but the most common, and the one I mean when I use it is like 'tongue-in-cheek' (which in and of itself is a concept that it took me some time to understand (surely if one's tongue were in one's cheek one would bite it rather a lot!? (but I digress))) - so it's like 'only joking', or 'not seriously'.

(But, don't ask me why it means that! I just know it does.)

I got a conscience about my sad facial expression and for years did facial exercise to try to liven it up. Lots of stressed grinning, pouting, inflating and deflating. Never did any good. And I go arpound with a permanent silly smile. Has them puzzled but I get fewer "what's wrong?" comments

Of course fixed facial expression is a diagnostic (Asperger 1944 cited by Attwood "his facial expressions were sparse and rigid"). Attwood (The Complete etc p261) continues: "a flat facial expression that lacks tone and subtle movement can also make the person appear sad".

Perhaps it means "face currently out of action while busy with important matters". We surely don't have to have a dynamic face if we aren't engaging in endless NT conversations.

But I also wonder if the neutral expression is a safe resort in reponse to being constantly criticised for having the wrong facial expression. I was always smiling when I shouldn't or scowling or anything but the facial expression I was supposed to have. Perhaps neutral is a safer option.

Oh and smilies - wasn't there another thread on that? - I don't understand them. What exactly does tongue out to one side mean?

And yes Goatworshiper, I think you've got the right idea.

Wow - Overwhelming response. The more I'm on this forum the more convinced of having asperger's I'm becoming.

The :P smiley implies that I wasn't being serious, longman.

I guess I've adopted over many years a notion of trying to get on with NTs even if I find it hard, but that's just me.

But a perception of people on the spectrum by some NTs I've encountered is that they over-react. That may be a misunderstanding of sensory overload, or the assumption by NTs that we should respond tolerantly to inappropriate wit.

But I think if its just someone saying hello, albeit in an oddly obscure way asking why I'm sad, I tend to smile, say hi or thanks. Usually it doesn't then escalate.

Or just snap "YEAH! I'M FINE! Now go away, you NT moron!" at them!

(or not)

:P

Me too - people perceive I'm looking unhappy when just absorbed in my thoughts.

But bear in mind this is a typical opening line for a neurotypical. They feel a compulsion to engage in conversation, and if it wasn't a comment on how you look, it would be the weather, or the football on the telly last night, or some TV reality show. 

We probably tend to forget, as we are quite content in our own thoughts, that the notion of having peace and quiet is alien to most NTs. They have to be chatting pointlessly all the time or they feel useless.

I was at a talk on autism last night - a very good talk- but the social bit afterwards was so impossible for me. This was a parents group, and like all NTs (but autistically affected by proxy through their children) they all congregate for complex chatting to which I've no way in....notwithstanding I find the clamour of collective chat unbearable. I'm left wondering if they really comprehend their ASD children enough.

Maybe next time you are asked why you are looking miserable just smile and thank the person for their interests. And then see if a bit of convo flows from it....enough to satisfy their craving but no more than you are comfortable with.

Witterring is their disability.....

This sounds familiar - I get the same, people say I look miserable or upset when I don't feel like that and that's why 'apparently' they don't speak to me. Usually I'm quite happy inside, lost in my world, or thinking something through.

And then I think... and they say I'm autisitc, what about them because they can't work me out.

I get something similar a lot.

People tell me I look worried, or concerned, when in fact I'm just thinking about something!