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Hi Ellie,

I really wanted to reply to your post but I have struggled to know how or where to come in. I often really struggle with this ‘barrier’ during informal discussions; I am really excruciatingly poor at making small talk or personal chat, even though I really want to. But I am going to persevere.

What I really wanted to offer, at the risk of being sexist, is that I have thought very long and hard about masks and personas in this life, and I can’t help but wonder if some of these are part of being a woman?

It seems to me that part of being a woman, particularly one of our generation, is that we are groomed from an early age to put the needs of others before our own? I think we (women) are actively encouraged to be selfless, to be accommodating, and to make significant sacrifices for others. And I think this can naturally lead to a crisis point at our age when we may begin to question these roles that are forced upon us from an early age, and begin to desire something for ourselves, to BE ourselves? To be fully acknowledged, valued and desired for the person we are, not what we ‘do’ or the ‘masks’ we wear?

I am certain that men are not exempt from having to adopt personas in order to survive and ensure the proximity (care, support, love) of others. However, after considerable thought, I do believe this curse may be particularly pertinent for women.

The expectations upon women in our society to be ‘the good daughter, the good wife, the good friend, the good mother’ (and much more recently, within my lifetime, the good colleague, the good career woman, the good breadwinner, thin, attractive, forever young, sexy…) are still extraordinarily strong. And in order to ‘achieve’ these things I think we do end up/ have to sacrifice and disavow valid bits of ourselves, NT or ND alike?

I wonder further if it is directly because of these powerful and pervasive expectations (upon women to be someone else who is groomed to be ‘in the service of others,’) that actually underpin the whole ‘difficulty with diagnosing female ASD?’

So, I guess I wanted to ask; what are your (or anyone else’s) thoughts about gender being a significant factor with regards to ‘wearing masks?’

x

   xxx

Spotty! ()()()()

I don't know how to 'defend' her (you Ellie), but I was confused and hurt by the mask comment and that they are more likely to be worn by NT's? I'm nearly 50 and still no one around me would know I was anything other than very slightly antisocial but it is crucifying and I don't know how to stop it without making myself homeless. Allowing or forcing anyone to mask is unforgivable, not impartial words I know. Push people far enough and they will break. I'm broken and it is only the good folks here that give me any hope for  a better future. ()()()()

Having always struggled to understand my Aspergers and my high level of empathy I came across two papers which I found to be very enlightening,

I decided to research for variables between Male and female traits. I discovered interesting scientific reports about female autism and the reason so many are missed or misdiagnosed .

Here are the relevant research papers, ellie did post a link to one in her opening title-and I will “ attempt” to post another here, To understand how a female can appear as if NT !

It needs to be understood more I think. Thank you.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5509825/

And ellies link from above.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5040731/

They are lengthy documents but if you read the first few pages I think you will find it a change from the articles on autism and Aspergers that are currently considered for diagnosing males.

enjoy and I hope it can potentially shed some light on why females are so easily missdiagnosed or missed altogether.

().

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laddie49 said:

Having followed your posts over the last few months  and reading this thread I am beginning to think you may not be on the spectrum, or if you are it is mild HF. However you alone must make the decision to get assessed or not.

Sorry if this offends, but I feel the need to be as honest as I can. 

Thank you Laddie for your honesty

My niece's husband, for instance.  He's known pretty much for years - as I have - that he's on the spectrum.  Everything fits with him.  But he said to me that he could never be bothered because he's happy and settled in his career and family... and he doesn't give a toss what anyone thinks of him!  Great if you can be like that, I say.  All power to him.

Yes this sums up how I feel about myself Tom. 

Hi Ellie

I have been accused a few times by people who got to know me of not caring what others think of me. I used to say "it's what you think of yourself that counts". and  "you have to learn to live with yourself before contemplating living with others" 

That is why I now feel more comfortable and relaxed living on my own with little social contact. I nevertheless like all of us would like to be loved and when I finally acknowledged my true condition I felt ashamed that I had not been a better person. One counsellor actually suggested to me I could "become a human being".  He was right I think but knew nothing about ASD so was judging me against NT norms.

I feel some of the advice given in reply to you has missed the point in some ways. NT people are much more likely to be wearing a mask in my view than those on the ASD spectrum. The T shirt for kids which said "I'm not naughty I'm autistic" for example which came in for a lot of criticism was an attempt in my view to deceive.

Having followed your posts over the last few months  and reading this thread I am beginning to think you may not be on the spectrum, or if you are it is mild HF. However you alone must make the decision to get assessed or not.

Sorry if this offends, but I feel the need to be as honest as I can. 

Take care , Laddie.

PS To The Foyster I would point out Autism is not a mental illness but a permanent life long condition. It may well coexist with mental health illnesses, but is different from those.

You’re right, there are no guarantees but I admire your determination  and even knowing that you are the one taking charge of things can affirm a lot to be positive about.

I'm in a very similar position at 61, diagnosed privately 6 months ago. My current instinct, to get people to appreciate my position a bit more, is to relentlessly pursue my obsessions, so that people can no longer just rely on my usual survival demeanour. I retired from work with this in mind, but actually I want to get another career. My idea is that indulging my real interests may eventually lead to someone noting my skills and abilities. However, I can't really guarantee this approach will work. But I just have to plug away at it, as always. It does at least make me a lot happier.

Keep being strong ellie,,, we are all here if and when you need to just talk.

 The mask has done you well but now has to slip a little and let your inner self be heard and understood, very scary after so many years, it allowed you to become a very kind person, yes covering up the hidden struggles, often losing your own self to fascilitate for others, Teaching countless hundreds of young minds,allowing them to grow and go on to achieve anything they want to. You have more than coped! You are amazing always giving.

Now with much support and guidance let others help you for a change, Be the one who is supported, take a rest and allow all of us to help guide you through this difficult time.

much love and support, ()x()x()x() as always.

Ewok?! EWOK!? How dare you... -shoots you with a slingshot-  *then thinks about CP30, our god.*

Thank you Starbuck for your reply. It won’t change things for my partner but I do need to initiate a change in myself  an£ to go forward x thank you 

Hi Ellie,

I know that part of your time on the forums has been a process of understanding who you are and learning to live 'without the mask' all the time.

Sounds to me that this was no light decision as you need answers on the matter whatever the results,

The diagnosis process can be an anxious process, especially waiting on the outcome, but it is worth it for closure and to provide you with answers.  As Martian Tom has already stated, it won't change anything really, which is both good and bad, but it may help you and your partner to try and understand each other and what makes you tick.  I have found that although my partner and I haven't sat down and had an official conversation on the matter, he has obviously done some background reading and has approached the subject in stages to help us both come to terms and work with each other.  There is also some provoking and joking around the matter, but I give as much as I take, so if anything it has probably balanced the cutting humor we have a bit more. :)

Thank you Tom for your thoughtful and considered reply. You are right there is a mix of frustration and dogged determination going on here. Yes it might ostrosize me..but i’m Pretty much on a limb anyway! 

Hi Ellie,

Well... I guess you know how I feel, because I've said many times.  I wanted that bit of paper because I wanted the validation.  But then, that's me - I need something like that.  Not all of us do.  My niece's husband, for instance.  He's known pretty much for years - as I have - that he's on the spectrum.  Everything fits with him.  But he said to me that he could never be bothered because he's happy and settled in his career and family... and he doesn't give a toss what anyone thinks of him!  Great if you can be like that, I say.  All power to him.

Your circumstances are different, of course, with the people surrounding you.  It's a bit more like my situation, I suppose.  A family that either doesn't understand and doesn't want to, or that accepts it, but without trying to understand it any better.  It's as if I've told them 'I only have one kidney',  and they've thought 'Okay.. but he's got another one, so he'll be alright.'  I'm an Aspie - but I've still got a brain, so I'll be alright!  So, going ahead with the diagnosis can easily seem like it doesn't make the slightest difference.  I suppose, if I'm honest, that my going for it was about two things: having something to show to others, yes... but mainly having something to show to myself.  I've said before that my mental health has improved in many ways because of it.  And I think it's because of that true understanding I now have about myself, which I've now had independently and professionally verified.  No one can take it away from me now.  No one can say to me 'Well, you're just saying that to use it as an excuse to explain away your strange behaviour', etc.  Again, though... that's just me: what I wanted, what I got, what I now feel.

You sound - to use a hoary old cliche - like you've reached a watershed.  Your post speaks of both frustration and desire.  I can't say that a diagnosis will placate your frustration and fulfill your desire.  It may do a little of each, it may do a lot of each.  It may do nothing at all.  It may, at the end of it, be nothing more than that personal validation.  Maybe an extra thing to throw out to people when they accuse you of being anti-social, or unfocused, or whatever else.  It may still make no difference to them.  Some of them might even create more distance.

Perhaps the bottom line is: How much do you care what other people think?  If you don't care - like my niece's husband - then does it really matter?  But is this something you want for other people -or something that you want for you?

Good luck with your decision.  Keep talking!

Tom

its a day out and I’ll pay for lunch! 

Thank you Missy. I have checked and the centre has a lot of experience in assessing women.. they have asked if I can bring someone who has known me since childhood... (non available)...and if I have a spouse/ partner.. ( I do but.... erm... they don’t get it).... if any one fancies being my nominated partner for the day, let me know! Lol

My dear Ellie., you are so worth the money spent on gettIng a diagnosis if that’s what you want to do. I think those who have followed this journey have had both what ifs what if they say I am or what if they say I am not? I hope you won’t let that stop you and I know you’re likely to feel all sorts of things whilst putting a case together to show why you believe you have asd. If you get the right person assessing you they will lead you, they will ask you things and you’ll be thinking “ oh my goodness is that part of it too!”  It is so affirming after years of confusion to have someone with you who “ just knows”. It is hard going on the journey by yourself, with a result which is just for you when you would like support and interest and belief from others and a result which makes a difference to others in your life too. Maybe it will.. As for how you go forward.. well one step at a time has to be my motto. Lean on your friends on this forum, take courage and do what feels right for you. Only time will tell what difference it makes to you and those around you. As you have read there is definitely a period of adjustment afterwards and thereafter how you use the knowledge is different for everyone. We have been inspired by women writers, authors, bloggers , people who have used the asd traits to advantage by harnessing those attributes and then those like me who didn’t find out soon enough not to be affected emotionally and physically which can happen if you force yourself to carry on carrying on with that mask. And trying to live by others requirements and standards. You already know it is a multifaceted conundrum but whatever you decide we are with you. 

Very true....but rather sad! 

True, but remember you have 'cracked on with it' on your own up til now, by virtue of not knowing what 'it' was, so you are likely stronger than you think.

The only trouble with that of course is that there is a high likelihood that everyone around you thinks you 'always seem so very capable' so never even notice when you are crumbling ..... And yes, while your problems don't affect them, they will ignore them. I reckon it's better to talk with like-minded folks (like-wired!) at that stage .... the others won't get it