Published on 12, July, 2020
Hi there, I have been with my partner for 2 years, he and his 10 (nearly 11) autistic son have lived with me in my home for almost a year and a half. His son and I get on very well in many ways, sharing a weird sense of humour and a love of going down strange conversational rabbit holes.
His son keep damaging things in my house - he smashed holes in a desk I let him use, so I now have no desk. He used a knife to shave pieces of wood off a chest of drawers in his room, and it is so destroyed that I can't even give it away - I tried to explain to him that some people can't even afford furniture and that it is not ok to destroy things like we are rich or like they are expendable. We don't have any spare money.
He gets large sticks and smashes other sticks in my garden but always does it among my plants, when there is plenty of room to do it elsewhere. He smashed a tile in on my bathroom wall, leading to a 10 day fix up job that involved many layers of filler, sanding, grout etc. He pulled the shower claw off the wall. He recently scratched marks into a freshly painted wall and claimed he could not remember doing it - his dad knows he did it, as do I. My sister bought me a Japanese maple for my 40th, he cut it with scissors and killed it. This is all done quietly when no one is looking.
We have been getting ever closer to moving in to a new house together, and I am going to rent my own house out, and so every bit of destruction makes this more difficult and expensive for me as I have to keep repairing things. His dad says he is doing it to get attention from him (his dad), not to upset me. I am very willing to accept that this is true, but it is difficult when the behaviour is all aimed at my house and my things. I guess part of the issue is that we live in my house and the furniture is mine etc so in a sense, most of what he has access to is mine. He however never damages his own things- there are no damaged gaming controller, consoles, or televisions because they are his and for his gaming, it seems many of you post about kids damaging things they use, but his own stuff is sacred to him, he only damages my stuff.
He ignores his dad when told not to destructive things and resumes them 30 seconds later. I don't know what I am posting on here for really, I guess I am wondering whether I just have to accept that I'll always be paying for damage he has caused, and some advice in learning to live with it and keep my temper, which I have entirely done until now, but it's getting difficult because I feel nervous in my own home and controlled by this.
We were all chilling out watching a programme he likes tonight and he swung a bottle opener (it opens like a butterfly knife which is why he wanted it, he is obsessed with blades and tools) around his fingers the entire time, ignoring his dad asking him not to because of the constant noise, and as he left the room, he dragged the sharp end of the bottle opener across my door.
His dad always taught him he does not HAVE to listen to someone just because they are an adult, and I actually agree with that, but his son interprets it as 'no one can tell me what to do unless they are a parent' - his son has said as much to me, that only parents can tell him anything (I actually think an 8 year-old can tell people what to do if what they are doing is stupid, so it's not about hierarchy for me). I'm the main breadwinner, I am doing up my own house through his destruction while we live in in, we are moving next week. I am also in the very early stages of a pregnancy that his son does not know about yet as we want to make sure everything is ok with the foetus before we disrupt his world with the news.
I want to have a good relationship with him, it was very good until a few months ago when enough damage had happened to my stuff only that I started to get upset and nervous in my home. I am struggling with the constant power struggle that he seems to be engaging in. He disrespects every adult, he refuses to share, he refuses to say please and thank you, he refuses to basic tasks himself and screams for his dad when he wants a drink that he could get for himself, he speaks to his dad like a piece of dirt, for example when his dad says anything to him he'll answer with "why would I care" or similar - that is the tip of the iceberg with how he speaks to his dad. The vast majority of things he says are negative or complaints, which is wearing on his father and on me. He smashes plants with sticks when we walk the dog, his dad tells him to stop but 30 seconds later he starts again, his dad tells him not to hit trees, he responds with its not a tree it's a bush, and he continues to lightly draw the stick across the trees and plants while looking sideways at his dad. He constantly points out different plants and asks if he can smash them. His dad let's him smash stinging nettles; I still hate the aggressive action and sound, it went on for 2.5 hours on the last walk I joined them on and it shot my nerves so badly I won't join them for a while as it is stressful and anxiety inducing. His dad told him this; the next walk involved constant requests to smash things. Obviously his dad takes the stick off him at times.
His dad is great parent who has his son with us 80% of the time because the mum is negligent - I have no issue with him being with us this much as I see it is best for him. He attends a mainstream school and is likely to be able to continue to do so, although with problems in one primary school who refused to accommodate him at all (they made him work alone in the corridor every day, it was disgusting) we jointly decided to take him out of school for a while for home schooling and it was the right decision. I would support that again if things went wrong again, but his new school are much more accommodating and allow him to wear hats and use fidget toys etc - they choose their battles well to accommodate Neurodiverse children from what I can see.
The more I type, the more I realise I have to learn to deal with this, I am only just starting to lose my temper with the situation (I do not shout at him, I ask him not to damage or use his tools on anything in my house) and I really want to find out how to deal with this better before our relationship is really damaged. I don't know what else to say - I would not be surprised if some elements of my post indicate my lack of understanding of autism and if any offence is caused. I apologise - it is not intended. I realise it may cause offence even if not intended, however, as you will all be parents of autistic children. I love and care for the lad, it is not nice to say this but the truth is that I can't have the same view of him that his dad has because I have not raised him his whole life, I've only known him two years, and one does not step straight into a parenting role - we have to get to know each other to develop whatever our relationship is, so it takes time.
I've never been involved in discipline as his dad wants his son and I to get on well, but I don't feel it's totally fair on me to not be able to speak up or take action, so I have started to do so very recently. I think if a tool is used for damage, it should be taken away, or if damage costs money, it should be paid for or contributed to by the aggressor even if they are a child - his father is more lenient and prefers to reason with him, but the behaviour resumes minutes or seconds later, it has no effect.
My partner is lovely and we only argue when my things are damaged again, and not every time at that. Is all of this typical for autistic children? What can I do to get better at this, apart from reach for the valium? Many thanks.
This is really long and complex. You may need to allow others some time to think and provide thought-full advice, which is how autistic adults handle things. We are not impulsive, but the opposite. Some of us may take days to process and offer an idea, but this situation requires a trained professional.
I have only read half so far, and I don’t know why the father isn’t paying for the damage and why you continue to allow them to live there if he cannot pull his weight -it isn’t the child’s responsibility to be respectful if they feel dismissed and disrespected, they tend to mirror the way they are treated. NeuroTypical children may respond well to being ghosted or ignored, they are wired for tribal inclusion and competition. Autistic children are wired for real connexion not in a group, but one to one. So severing that connexion by turning away or silence is a betrayal it teaches the opposite and severs trust. It cruel and not helpful but will cause permanent damage.
Accusing children of seeking attention is never a healthy response. That is actually a parents job. Children don’t want “attention”, Corporations and adverts want attention. Children want to be understood, seen and loved. They want to feel protected and not as though they have to work out difficult circumstances on their own.
It could be worth having a look at how this man is negligent toward his son and find the parallel behaviours in how he’s negligent toward you. Only resentment will build, unfortunately. It just sounds like bad parenting.
This father needs to stop everything he is doing and spend time with this kid. If you really want them to stay continually reinforce the father give up his chilling out time and down time with you to engage with his son. Play games with him, teach him to build things. The father has to build a lot of broken trust with this child. And simply BE the behaviour he wants his son to exemplify.
If the father continually says please and thank you to YOU the son will follow. The father needs to take him to the kitchen before the child asks and affirm this child’s ability to do a thing for himself.
The more time you insist they spend alone and together, the more this child will appreciate you. But the father needs to be present and invested. If he’s hanging out with his son but on his phone, this is not time together.
If this child likes tools, have them fix the damage. Take the door off and have them fix it.
This child sounds like he’s had no one to rely on. With autistic children, discipline rarely works. These kids see the hypocrisy and can tell when there is a mismatch but due to struggles with language cannot identify or tell you why. To fix “behaviour”, a parent needs to fix their own. Autistic children who are protected and seen, have no need to try to express their distress.
Hi father always says please and thank you to everyone, I am not sure where you got this from. He's never spending time with his son while on his phone - he would not class that as spending time with his son, he would class that as ignoring his son. The mother ignores the child and gets embarrassed about his noises etc in public, his father and I feel completely different and don't have any embarrassment or need to make him be quiet - you've read in things that have not been said.
@Juniper - with respect, I don't think you should make generalisation such as " ... It's unhelpful to accuse an autistic individual of 'reading' into anything. we cannot ever read between the lines,... " We are all different, and our autism takes different forms. By all means, own the statement and say " I cannot ... " but please do not post as if your experience is universal.
What I have found helpful is when I "read between the lines" as you put it, and I do it a lot in my job, I need to check back, maybe ask for "evidence" or triangulate against known facts. Then I have a "working hypothesis" which will either be confirmed or refuted by later experience.
I would have thought that encouraging independence would be better for him, he will be at secondary school next year and being willing to get his own drink is going to be necessary so I think we will encourage independence so far as possible with small things like that. He asks for hugs when he wants them, when he shouts for drinks he just doesn't want to have to walk downstairs and pause his gaming console, everyone is lazy when they can be, I'm not suggesting it makes him a bad child. I'm concerned about how he will do at secondary school, his mum insisted upon a "good" school, whatever that means, and I get the impression the secondary school won't accommodate his hat wearing or fidget toys or his need to make noises and shout. If he gets anxious and upset by school again, my partner will home school him again while we work out an alternative, or get some tutors in, or save for a Steiner school if it seems suitable. Some of it may well be to masking, but it really seems that a school for SEN students would not suit him at all, but it is possible he's having to do a lot to try to "fit in". Either way he certainly seems happier at his new school, they have a sort of chill out room when the kids need it, occasionally teachers have time to play chess with him etc. We will have to see I guess. I will look at the links, thank you for them.
NAS79996 said:One does not have to be sociopathic to know right from wrong
I brought this point up because from what I'm hearing you express, your perception of him is that he is NeuroTypical:
NAS79996 said:constant power struggle that he seems to be engaging in
For an Autistic, there isn't a power struggle unless we are defending ourselves. You could think of him like moving a broken down tractor or an animal with a hurt paw. Not a power struggle. There is a kind of natural force involved, and while an Autistic child may want to feel understood (a lack of being heard/seen is highly isolating and an unnatural state of existence for all humans), or may want a bandage or a glass of water, this childs needs are Valid and from what it sounds, desperate.
But to start with the assumption there is an antagonising fight for dominance won't help and it might make matters worse.
Francesca Happé at Kings College has done a great deal of research here. It is no small matter to note the difference between the NeuroTypical sociopath or psychopath and the Autist, who is not NeuroTypical in the least. The main difference is competition. You can have competition OR connexion, but never both.
Here are some links to help understand Autism. Also even if he can do a thing for himself, he wants to feel connected with, heard, understood, desired. Small acts of kindness are how we connect. If he wants an adult to get him a drink, he's essentially asking for a hug. These little things hurt no one. Of course he can do it alone. We can all do 'life' alone. But we don't want to. Everything is far more meaningful in relationship with someone we desire a relationship with.
https://autcollab.org/2020/04/30/autism-the-cultural-immune-system-of-human-societies/?fbclid=IwAR37xumHkRga0hADICA80wxaWycn7_Kr9Oc6uZhcs2zJ0QzamXOI4qwU2bQ
https://thepsychologist.bps.org.uk/volume-32/august-2019/me-and-monotropism-unified-theory-autism
https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/everyday-neurodiversity/202108/are-we-giving-autistic-children-ptsd-school?fbclid=IwAR0e6pwWeDC7C0c3EJAE1qdd9PyMyCqkgwIvTDEIxPKGBOV7Qn9hrgN5kI8
You have posted in the parents and carer’s area however when I’m on my phone it shows all the most recent posts together at once so they are often read by the autistic adults using the forum as well
One does not have to be sociopathic to know right from wrong, although I doubt you meant it so literally. It's a good thing to teach empathy, I don't know anything about using it to create guilt and control, only to create understanding that you should not stamp on a bee, for example, or hurt others. I didn't know that autistic children cannot tell right from wrong, if that is what you are saying. From the boy's conversations, he knows right from wrong - he does not like it when children at his school use homophobic or racial slurs etc. He is aware of other children's bad behaviour and knows it is not ok for them to break things, he talks about it when other kids do it. I don't think we are having the same conversation. I'm going to call the helpline as the person below has usefully suggested.
This whole site is for parents and carers and also for autistic adults. It is imperative that NeuroTypical parents/carers listen to Autistic adults regarding just how different our motives and experience of society is. We reason, understand and perceive completely different. One of the biggest obstructions to autistic children being afforded a healthy environment to learn and grow in is the NeuroTypical Sociopath. This person knows the difference between Right and Wrong and choose to use Empathy (a relating and understanding form of 'mind-reading') to play games and assert dominance.
The Autistic individual will never be able to manipulate the NeuroTypical individual. We have a completely different way of perceiving. Often, we spot inconsistencies, a lack of congruity and this causes distress. We are analytic in nature and Very Sensitive emotionally and intellectually, which can work in our favour as adults, but it requires a hyper-vigilant parent. It is 100% traumatising and overwhelming to try and understand NTypical adults if they are even the slightest bit unaware of intentionality or if their words do not match their actions. If we are lashing out it is a Very Bad place. We are often unheard, unseen, overlooked and misrepresented, and continually misunderstood. If we lash out we are beside ourselves with hurt and incredibly frustrated to a serious confusion by our emotions.
I had to buy The 48 Laws of Power to understand NTypical society. For every chapter there is a section where the "Law" won't work. And I might suggest this almost across the board will be Autistic reasoning. We look for compatibility and connexion. We will never thrive in competition.
It is no longer a matter of Right and Wrong, but entering a state survival mode. When an Autistics emotional state is heightened, it is not just difficult. it is similar to being at a carnival of horrors, with everything and every one screaming at you. There is probably a great deal of emotional stress he does not have the capacity to express. A loss of a mothers love would be enough.