Punishment or acceptance?

I was 14 when my parents moved from London to Devon.  I was pleased to get away from the London school because of the bullying there.  But I was absolutely petrified of going to the new school.  And it wasn't 'mainstream to SEN'.  It was 'mainstream to mainstream'.  I was right to be petrified.  The bullying was much, much worse.  Horrendous.  I felt under threat, every day.  Most of my school day was about being targeted and threatened in class, then being as quick on my feet as I could at break times so that I could get away to a hiding place.  The toilets, the road, or anywhere where teachers were around, such as the dining hall.  I bunked off for much of my final year.  I wasn't losing out because the fear meant I wasn't learning anything, anyway.  The headmaster kept making promises to my parents, but not really following through.  He even 'buddied' me with one of the school's worst thugs, which shows how in touch he was with things.  Culmination?  A playground beating at 16, just before any exams that I wouldn't have passed anyway.  I was then in hospital while they  reset my smashed cheekbone. 

I suppose one positive legacy of it is that I can hold my head up and say I never failed a single exam at school.

I understand the problem of having two children and needing to try to treat them alike, with both rewards and sanctions, so that one doesn't end up feeling the other is getting a better deal.  But a neurodiverse child and a neurotypical child presents difficulties on that score, and it will need careful handling.  That's why  input from a SENco or other professional would help.  And the school shouldn't need to be pushed into doing something.  Sadly, though, they often do.

I can speak from personal experience on this one. I wasn't diagnosed as autistic until I was 38, but I did have a dilemma of the choice to change schools.

I was 14 or 15, and had been under an Educational Psychologist (who didn't pick up on my autism!), for so called "behavioual problems". I was on the verge of expulsion. I know your daughters case is different, but I was offered the option of a transfer to one of two other schools. My grades were very high, so they were willing to take me.

I couldn't handle the thought of change. I knew kids at both schools, and I wouldn't have had a problem getting to either. I had quite a lot of family at one school too. I probably wouldn't have been bullied or shunned because the kids all knew I was "a bit odd", but they were cool with me nevertheless. I'd spoken to teachers from both schools with my parents, and my Educational Psychologist, they had both put a plan into place to accomodate me. Things looked good, I was on the verge of moving, but then the dread set in.

I knew the layout of the school. I knew for certain the kids were going to leave me alone. I had a girlfriend at the school. I knew which teachers liked and hated me. Even small things like where the vending machines, toilets, and various minor points were comforting. Most of all I'd worked out a routine, and even more importantly coping strategies. I didn't know anything about autism, but I knew how to function in that environment to the best of my ability. I ended up staying, getting expelled, and that was that.

I think that's probably a major part of your daughters problems with moving, having to form a new routine, and strategies for coping. It's frankly fucking terrifying.

I think that talking this through with your daughter is the main thing. Preparation, and planning are a big part of autistic life. We tend to overthink, and this is where the stress forms, that leads to situations like you and your daughter are experiencing. Talk to her and try to help her rationalise, plan, and get used to it all. I'd just let her skip school on those days, and not put pressure on her. Let her get comfortable, and just talk. I think she's probably just planning, worrying, and trying to rationalise the whole situation. Most autistic people are perfectly fine when they can get their head around how they will deal with it.

I hope things work out for you both. You seem concerned, and want the best for your daughter. It's new territory for you both, so expect things to be a little difficult.

Best of luck, and all the best. Things should be OK.

Cloudy

Hi I didn’t want to make it sound as if young person we are talking about is manipulative. I honestly don’t think she is. She’s obviously struggling with something at school. What I was trying to put forward and I would actually appreciate your honest opinion as a ‘Aspie’ if you think it’s better to “push” a child or it is better to leave them to do what they want. It’s something every single parent struggles with even with NT children. Do you let them “learn from their mistakes” or do you direct them? And I’m diverting from school none attendance issue. I’m asking in general? I know every situation and every child is different but would you (now as an adult) would you prefer for your parents to be a little bit more pushy or would it be more beneficial to do your own thing (as you choose to do)? I honestly don’t know what’s best and all I can do is to do what feels right for us and our son. I can understand why I have come across as someone who is not patient and some times I do loose my patience with my HF son and I do feel terribly bad about it. I think just as he sometimes just can’t help himself I can’t help loosing my patience at times. 

With regards to “excuses” sometimes these are not excuses but simply requirements something a young person simply really needs to function. 

I guess what I should be saying is that this young person needs help at school. But is effectively running away from the problem helpful? And once again I’m not trying to be argumentative I genuinely don’t know what’s best. I’m firm believer though in not backing away from problems or difficulties and making changes to the environment or people or what ever might be an issue to help solve it. But would it be better to do all this “behind young persons back” so that they are not emotionally affected? 

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Hi, Thank you for the reply, my daughter already does 2 vocational afternoons in the new school that she will be attending after the half term do she is familiar with the school. 

My biggest fear is we have fought so hard to be heard from paediatrics/ senco and local authorities that mainstream weren't meeting my daughter's needs because she only has a meltdown at home ( either before or after school)  what if the school don't see what we see? What if she doesn't want to go full stop?

With respect... autistics have to put up with 'don't use your condition as an excuse' an awful lot. It's quite common, of course, precisely because autism is uncommon. Granted, children can certainly be manipulative. And there can be many  reasons for this manipulation.  With me as a child, it was to escape bullying.  Actually, no... I wasn't manipulative.  I simply bunked off until my headmaster was forced to deal with the situation properly.  My parents had been to the school countless times about the bullying, but they just paid lip service to 'supporting' me.  So... I took my own action and forced the situation.  Call that manipulation if you like.  I call it self-preservation.

You talk about your son as a law-breaker.  Do you mean by not going to school?  I would say that's quite different to deliberate law-breaking (such as stealing) - whether as a child or as an adult.

You are right.  The school should be doing more.  But you speak as someone who doesn't have a lot of patience for 'autism'.  Most Aspies (I assume your son high-functioning) find NT behaviours such as manipulation, deceit and deliberate dishonesty to be rather alien concepts.  Which isn't to say we're all wonderful people by any  means. 

Might this be an opportunity for your new school to come up with a plan to gradually introduce her to the new environment, perhaps a few more intro visits and a plan put in place of how they/you build up moving towards fulltime school with them. I do think it worth speaking to the new school to devise a transition plan as clearly she is very stressed as the existing school is not for her. County will support you if she needs to move schools earlier so worth speaking to the new school about that.

Maybe worth setting up a meeting with her new keyworker and passing on information of what she likes, triggers etc. 

Hang on in there as I know how hard this is and how totally exhausting it can be (I have two children with Autism, one is a school avoider) but there is definitely light at the end of the tunnel. Use the expertise of the new school to guide and support you. 

Keep strong and breathe xx

It’s completely understandable that she doesn’t want to go in. But is it acceptable? No. Not in my opinion. School is mandatory up to age of 16 and so she should be attending. I keep enforcing this with my son he’s only 8 but has had days when he thought he could get away with not going in. I seriously think it’s very dangerous path when we start to make excuses for our children. She might like not being at school and then what you gonna do? No teenager likes school ones with additional difficulties probably even less so but personally I would am not excusing my child. We have a rule that if it’s something “minor” and possibly related to their disability we let it off but if it’s something against the law (or would be considered against the law as an adult) we come down on it hard. Old habits die hard and I don’t want my son to end up in trouble with the law because he was getting away with certain things as a kid (and why should he stop now?). I know the example is very OTT but one thing always leads to another... I think you are absolutely doing right thing. And it’s school who should be putting more support in! 

I'm sorry if you don't like my reply, Loulabelle, but you did ask for opinions.  I'm giving mine based on some good experience - both as an autistic person and as someone who has worked extensively with autistic adults and children.  An aversive approach to behaviour, whilst it may work for many  children, could  well be more problematic for autistic children.

As has been said - it is a big change and will be highly stressful.  She most likely is finding such a change much harder to accept than a non-autistic child would. 

I don't have autistic children, but have worked with them.  Some - even the most highly-functioning ones - have found any kind of change very difficult to handle.  One lad I worked with had meltdowns every day when his mother moved house with him.  It took a few weeks to get him to accept the change.

If she is autistic, she is certainly not a 'typical teenager'.  The punishments you have imposed could actually make things worse for her rather than better, because they are compounding things in a way that she may not be able to properly process and understand.  I say 'could actually' because I don't know the full circumstances, and each autistic person will respond differently to things.

Does she have a SENco at the school that you could discuss this with?  Have you spoken to any behaviour therapists who understand autistic behaviours?

There are reasons for her behaviour.  They need to be properly understood.

You might find it useful to check out the information here:

Behaviour

It's a big change and will be highly stressful for her.

My advice would be to say "go to school until this date, then we will let you have a week off" or something similar. This will give her an extra week to get her head sorted for the change to a new school, and give her something to look forward to.