Books for those of no fixed religion but want 'life guidance'

TheCatWoman said:

some nice Gregorian chanting

Yes, I love that too. I've been to retreats at monasteries where you are allowed to join them at worship. 

Lonehare12 said:

I have only recently detached myself from organized religion.

My last dealings with organised religion was 5  - 6 years attending Quaker meetings [Religious Society of Friends] at Jordans in Beaconsfield. They were very welcoming with many social events, walks and picnics which I loved; you didn't feel obliged to speak and no one pressed you to socialise more than you wanted. The silent meetings were amazingly uplifting. I attended Quaker weddings and funerals where Friends routinely stood and related anecdotes, leading to laughter even at funerals - very comforting for the bereaved. Their faith is broad, encompassing those who did not accept a 'God' being, as well as devout believers, the main tenet being 'go quietly through the world, seeking that of God in everyone'.

Thitch Nath Hank was lovely and full of laughter. He had a female monk with him who smiled at me - I never forgot because her smile was so deep and sincere.

Kate Kestrel said:

my parents didn’t have the capacity to be more warm and loving - and that’s very sad. However I learned a lot from their mistakes.

Just like mine! Yes, I too learned how not to live because of them [making very bad relationships on the way]. Current curriculums are far too focussed on knowledge that is not applicable to daily life. That's why I agree with de Botton's life views.

The 'Meditations' of Marcus Aurelius are a depiction of the inner life of a Stoic.

Plus it is more efficient - soak the leavened bread in wine, get both at once! Its two tier system, parish priests who can marry and monks and bishops who cannot, always seemed eminently sensible to me.

Kate Kestrel said:

Accept the mystery’

I like that. It has made me think of how music lifts the soul and nature gives life …it’s a mystery. 

I think that texts can be read on at least two levels, some on more levels, and one way doesn’t take away from another way. I find it very interesting to know how ordinary people or people who are familiar with a text or are scholars in a textual discipline would translate/understand/interpret a text. It makes me feel grounded in the world and there is a spirituality in that and an authenticity and assurance of what has been and is happening for the author. When I read a text like that I am not looking for the secret of life and I’m not trying to grasp and define everything. I’m seeking understanding of the background to the text because I love to do that. Some people have no interest in seeking that kind of understanding and that is ok too, but that is not the only way for me. 

Reading a text in a spiritual way and not trying to understand the intention of the author is of the highest value too. It’s what I did for many years and still do sometimes. Both ways of reading a text are valid but perhaps some religious disciplines wouldn’t teach both ways.

I think the idea of surrender and acceptance can be a bit of a trap if I'm honest, they're both concepts open to abuse, "you surrender to me and accept that what I say is right/true" type of thing or as an excuse to not act when you need to or should do. I think it's a very similar thing to the way that karma is misused, it's not crime and punishment, nor is it an excuse for inaction, my repsonse to those who tell me that someone is poor or unwell or oppressed or something is because it's their karma, get a shirty response, usually of, 'and how do you know its not your karma to help them?'

Another concept I see misunderstood is that of personal power and its use, especially its magical use, I often use the example of a love spell, an eternally popular one, it's OK to ask for or do a spell to attract love to you, but it's definatley not OK to put a spell on another in the hope of subverting thier free will.

I don't see myself disolving into the wyrd as becoming lesser and less connected, if anything my awareness is becoming larger and more connected, my perceptions are different.

I've also finally got the concept of monotheism out of my head, which is a lot harder than I thought as its so ingrained into the way we think and experience the world, it no longer occurs to me.

Maybe Kate, you and I think similarly with our thoughts on capitalism and monotheism, maybe they're two cheeks of the same rrrs? Theres nothing wrong with material possessions we all need some, but the aquisition of them, the over spending and consumption the chasing of status via the medium of ownership, to me is compensationg for something missing in ones life. We need to learn to say stop, enough and not pay some "lifestyle guru" mega bucks to tell us to chuck stuff out.

Just to add: I think as an autistic person I’ve often struggled to feel ‘safe’, and to try to feel safe I’ve done things (such as withdrawing from life in various way) to try to feel safe. But now I see that it hasn’t made me feel more safe - this leaning towards withdrawal from life (mixed with a lot of ‘fight or flight’ tendencies) has often left me feeling less safe. The Buddhist teaching is that most of our suffering comes from attachment and aversion. Keeping this in my mind has helped me a lot and helped me look at the way I think (and how I behave as a result of my thinking). It’s helped me to find a bit of distance from my ‘self’ and I can see more clearly why I think the way I think, and the ways in which I often unwittingly make my life harder rather than easier. My son has ocd and it’s helped me to understand ocd more in the light of aversion and how we react to the things we’re uncomfortable with - and hopefully it will help me to support him better. Studying Buddhist philosophy has basically opened my mind and helped me to be more objective about my reactions to things. Before I just had my conditioning from my own upbringing (with very unenlightened and often angry parents) and my culture as a British person to try to understand things. British culture is……pretty basic. It often comes down to  ‘buy this and you’ll be happy’ - which is ridiculous. Capitalist countries are littered with angry and dissatisfied wealthy people. Eastern philosophy is streets ahead in terms of wisdom and ways to be truly happy. 

I really like your phrase ‘dissolving into the wyrd’ - I hadn’t heard that before. More and more I’m attracted to the idea of letting go of the self, of an attitude of surrender and acceptance towards life. My guess is that as an autistic child in a dysfunctional home with a lot of arguments I felt a deep need to protect myself by any method of control I could find - by ‘fight or flight’ and so on. Also I spent quite a lot of time in hospital as a very young child and again I think I would have been in fight or flight mode (and ‘flight’ was not an option for me as for a while I could not walk due to my condition/surgery. So I think that led me to be hyper vigilant and feeling I had to battle with life, or run from life. And I think western societies encourage this mentality of ‘sink or swim/survival of the fittest’ - and for an autistic person that creates lots of high stress situations and more fight or flight.

Ive found that most eastern spiritual traditions encourage an attitude of acceptance and surrender to what comes our way - as a way to find more peace in our lives. Again - in a western capitalist society this is challenging - because it’s hard to survive in a capitalist society without ‘playing the game’ - you often end up being trampled on. So it’s a challenge to combine living in a western society with a spiritual and truly ethical life. I think it’s possible though. I’m still working it out like many people are. How to find peace and happiness, how to reduce the anxiety that I’ve struggled with all my life, how to not have my peace of mind destroyed by some of the things I see happening around me, how to have enough money for my basic needs, how to find a way to live in a place that I find peaceful and spiritually nourishing. I may not have much time left to try to do these things, as I am not very young (though hopefully with luck I have a bit of time to continue on this path and to learn and to live a meaningful life). It’s an ongoing thing. It’s nice to read the comments here and see that others are also trying to explore these things. That’s encouraging:) 

I agree Kate, so much of our youth seems to be about doing and fixing things that probably aren't broken, I think it takes a certain level of maturity to learn to be a human being, rather than a human doing.

People can spend years looking for answers and never finding them, often I suspect, because they're asking the wrong question/s. I think we expect to arrive at adulthood fully formed and fixed in our personality, opinions, likes and dislikes, I think many people cut themselve off from any idea of learning or change, things they dont' have the "right" answer to get ignored or dismissed. Angry answers are provoked when people who have the courage and insight to keep themselves open to the universe and all it has to offer, say something challenging and the challenge can be very small.

I've also come across the idea that religion and spirituality are only something practiced by single women and will be given up when a male partner comes along, WTF?

As I age I'm enjoying the feeling of gradually disolving into the wyrd, this disolution feels neither frightening or strange, but natural and a bit exciting. 

I remember years ago being at Glastonbury and this woman had a tote bag with the words ‘Accept the mystery’ printed on it. As I’ve got older I’ve got more comfortable with ‘not knowing’ - with being more relaxed about not having to understand everything, or maybe just having a more instinctive response to things without feeling the need to ‘pin down’ why I connect with them. I was listening to some music the other day which was Rumi’s words put into song form. I wasn’t analysing the words - I just enjoyed taking them in and them resonating with me in ways that I can’t necessarily put into words. 
Similarly I might listen to some Kirtan/hindu music and be deeply moved by it, and also enjoy going to a service in a Christian Cathedral, or taking part in a Beltane ceremony, etc etc. If I feel that my life is being enriched by any of these things then I’m just very grateful for that, and the more the merrier as far as I’m concerned. As the Buddhists say: “go as a river” - loosen our attitude and practice just ‘being’ and experiencing life with freshness and openness . We don’t need to grasp at and define everything in life - we can just experience things that hopefully bring us joy, contentment and also help us to be decent human beings. 

If only it didn't take so many years to realize! 

Can you make anything of what the whole piece means for him? I haven’t grasped everything in the second part, or maybe some would say I haven’t grasped anything!

Many spiritual and wise people of different religions have attained a state of going beyond the ‘fundamentals’ of their affiliation and are more invested in their similarities and higher things.

I think Rumi is wonderful too. Such wisdom.

It’s interesting what you say about your brother Marianne. It can take a long time to heal past wounds. Plum Village has a lot of useful material on healing and letting go - I wonder if it might be helpful to your brother. Plum Village is a bit more ‘warm’ than some schools of Zen Buddhism. I had a very dysfunctional upbringing and it’s helped me to forgive my parents to an extent that I hadn’t thought possible. Before I’d found it very hard to forgive them - now I feel very free to be able to let that past resentment go. It does take a long time though. However your brother being ‘antagonistic towards others’ is a sign that he probably has a long way to go with his Zen practice! 

Marianne72 said:

Solitariness works well for me - I join in 'community' by writing. Centuries ago, I might have become an anchoress I think

I think you would have been a very wise and spiritual anchoress. 

Thank you Desmond - I’m going to get this book.

Hi Marianne - how wonderful - I would love to have seen TNH in person during his lifetime - you were very fortunate to do that! My parents also argued a lot - it was not a peaceful or harmonious environment to grow up in. It’s never too late to improve one’s life though is it? I realise now that my parents didn’t have the capacity to be more warm and loving - and that’s very sad. However I learned a lot from their mistakes. Re. School - I agree - we could be teaching children truly useful life skills and ways to be good people and to be kind and happy - it’s such a wasted opportunity to not do more of this kind of teaching in schools. Maybe in the future it will happen - I really hope so. 

You come across as clever Marianne. I don’t get all of Rumi either, and the bits that I think I have comprehended are probably far removed from what he intended. I don’t think that necessarily matters as I am not his disciple and I’m not taking an academic approach. Moreover, he lived a long time ago and language has evolved over the years. Some say that the original meaning has been lost in translation. Sometimes I pick a sentence of his writing here and there, often merely snippets and ponder.

Marianne72 said:

Is it, that knowing myself I can then be one with God?

It could be that.

I am wondering if Rumi considers his being detached from all religions and nationality, his body, the world, all that is past, present and future etc., His being is detached from the physical and the spiritual, yet he seeks God and if he ‘sees’ God he will in ecstasy? 

Marianne72 said:

It's more about learning to love the self, and thus finding peace and joy in life

That’s the paradox…we need to love the self in order to find peace. 

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Oh Number - that is such an incredibly kind thing to say! You have touched my heart with your very warm words - thank you so much!