Hello!
How come you get people who are aware that they are autistic and feel relieved when they finally get diagnosed then on the other end of the line you get people who are totally unaware that they are yet neurotypical people can see that they are but they can't? If they were to find out that they were then then they may have a completely different reaction i.e. be upset or take a little longer to let it sink in. Does this make sense?
How come you get people who are aware that they are autistic and feel relieved when they finally get diagnosed then on the other end of the line you get people who are totally unaware that they are yet neurotypical people can see that they are but they can't?
If you are neurodivergent then there are no clear signs to you that you are different, just a feeling that you are normal but just don't really understand all the rules, or you wonder why other people seem to cope so much better than you.
It stems from a lack of awareness of autism so most older people don't realise how it presents itself and without this knowledge you won't connect the dots that "hey, that looks like me".
Add in the spectrum nature of autism where no two autists have the same traits and it is a slippery fish to identify in yourself unless you look hard.
Those who understand more about autism can see the traits in others - I do it all the time now and have let several people to have an assessment and discover they are autistic.
How we respond to it will depend on how we deal with the unexpected coupled with any existing bias we may have towards mental health issues. Some with think "oh god, I'm one of them" and others will think "that explains a lot - good to know" and every shade in between.
I think that is it in a nutshell.
If you are neurodivergent then there are no clear signs to you that you are different
There are very clear signs actually with a few of the conditions which come under the neurodivergent umbrella eg. Tourettes.
Also, many autistic people are very clearly autistic ie not those people with what is nowadays sometimes termed 'high functioning' autism but all the rest.
many autistic people are very clearly autistic ie not those people with what is nowadays sometimes termed 'high functioning' autism but all the rest.
I think the people with low functioning autism are not going to be out and about that much for other people to notice and make the observations on them that you talk about.
There are very clear signs actually with a few of the conditions which come under the neurodivergent umbrella eg. Tourettes.
You started the discussion talking about autism and that was the basis of my reply. If you expand it to all ND categories then it is something like a 5x larger pool and the discussion changes when you do this.
Within autism I don't think there are many obvious signs from the majority of us. Many avoid social contact so are not observed much, only 20% work which is the majority of social contact I suspect and these will be those who are best able to mask their way through life.
These are just my observations though - not hard facts.
Masking has three components
Could you tell me what these are? Many Thanks.xx
Are you you saying all these dictionaries are wrong?
It seems the word does not have the exact meaning you want to believe, but don't let that stop you - I believe there is space for both to be correct.
I’ve already explained the nature of your misunderstanding - including about the nature of dictionary entries, and what can and can’t be inferred from them - here, in B 's thread:
This forum is an autistic space. Accuracy in using language associated with the neurodiversity paradigm and movement is important here. It helps people to understand the benefits of learning to regard neurodivergent people, alongside neurotypical people, as being a natural and equally important part of the human population - which, as a whole, is neurodiverse. These distinctions sit at the heart of the neurodiversity model, and are to our collective benefit - including in securing adjustments / accommodations across various areas of daily life.
Calling neurodivergent people neurodiverse undermines the whole concept, causes confusion, and leads others to adopt the same mistaken beliefs, and to spread that misuse even more widely.
Under the neurodiversity model, neurodiverse is not interchangeable with neurodivergent. The two separate words exist to describe two separate things.
To paraphrase Judy Singer - who, with others, was instrumental in creating and promoting the neurodiversity paradigm, and so is among the most authoritative sources you could wish for, alongside the NAS:
As you might have noticed from other posts and upvotes (eg Wordsmith 's post in the other thread), I am not alone in viewing your misuse of terminology as problematic. I would also gently suggest that, for those readers who do understand and use terminology accurately, your misuse of it lessens your personal credibility in respect of anything else that you might be saying.
Might I suggest reflecting on your own (blunt) advice to others about such learning opportunities?
If you are happy to remain ignorant then it is through choice.
It would be far preferable, in my view, for those of us who get involved in helping and educating others to be using neuroaffirming language accurately, consistently and constructively - and in line with the NAS’s guidance, which is “based on on our language research on the preferences of autistic people, their families and professionals, as well as the feedback and insight we get from our supporters and wider work.”.
Perhaps you are experiencing some personal difficulties in doing so. For example, you have previously mentioned:
my stubborness (and probably some oppositional defiance disorder)
I have done my best to help you learn about this topic, now on several occasions. However, as Phased noted in the Terminology thread, if - for whatever reason - you choose to continue misusing the language around our condition, you might reasonably expect others to keep also gently clarifying it for the benefit of other users - and for the benefit of the wider autistic and neurodivergent communities.
As I've explained previously (including in B 's recent thread here), the population as a whole is neurodiverse.
https://www.dictionary.com/browse/neurodiverse
neurodiverse - having or relating to atypical neurological traits and ways of thinking; not neurotypical.
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/neurodiverse
neurodiverse - having or relating to brain function that is not neurotypical
https://www.collinsdictionary.com/dictionary/english/neurodiverse
neurodiverse - People who have a neurodiverse condition have brains that function in a different way to that usually considered as normal.
Are you you saying all these dictionaries are wrong?
It seems the word does not have the exact meaning you want to believe, but don't let that stop you - I believe there is space for both to be correct.
many of them do not like the thought of equating their suffering to the behaviors of neurotypicals.What do you mean by this?xx
There are some autists who do not like the idea that non-neurotypical people can claim to be on the spectrum. These neurotypical people may have traits similar to autistic ones but they are from a different source (ie not the brain development issue NDs have).
These complainers do not like that NTs can claim to be on the spectrum when technically they are not (by the definition of what the ND spectrum is) and they consider this to be a form of appropriation.
I'm not going to argue the rights and wrongs, just point out that there are some people who will take exception to the statement. See the discussion thread I linked to in my post for more details.
many of them do not like the thought of equating their suffering to the behaviors of neurotypicals.
What do you mean by this?xx
A small portion of the population is neurodiverse
You are still using "neurodiverse" incorrectly.
As I've explained previously (including in B 's recent thread here), the population as a whole is neurodiverse.
In referring to people who are not neurotypical, you mean neurodivergent.
As the NAS explains:
Neurodiversity includes every single human being.
It is common for words related to neurodiversity to be misused. For example, people might say ‘Autistic people are neurodiverse’ when they mean ‘Autistic people are neurodivergent’.
Examples of accurate phrases include:
Humans are neurodiverse.
Autistic people are neurodivergent.
Autism is a form of neurodivergence.
A small portion of the population is neurodiverse
Estimates of the neurodivergent are 15% to 20% in the UK but it includes a few conditions and there will be a good percentage undiagnosed.
O right ok.
Thank you for your responses and your support.Hope you all have a good New Year and 2026 is a good one for all of you.xx
I will ask if she is aware of anything that she does that is autistic but apart from that I won’t take it any further.
I would assess her opinions of autism in general before considering this. Some people have a strong bias against it and even suggesting they could be autistic can cause an extreme reaction.
If you want to do it then maybe print out a list of autistic traits and highlight the ones you have and ask her if she has any - you can use the "we are all on the spectrum" lie to encourage her to join in perhaps.
We are all on the spectrum somewhere
A hugely controvertial thing to say I'm afraid. A small portion of the population is neurodiverse and many of them do not like the thought of equating their suffering to the behaviors of neurotypicals.
I'm not going to debate it here but point you to this thread:
Forgot to say,
Happy New Year Everyone!!xx
From what I have worked out my best friend’s autistic traits are as follows,
Failure of normal back and forth conversations
Unable to convey emotional thoughts to others
Unable to see how their actions will affect other people
Doesn’t like plans changed at last minute.
We are all on the spectrum somewhere so I will ask if she is aware of anything that she does that is autistic but apart from that I won’t take it any further.If and when she does find out,I will be there every step of the way.xx
Many avoid social contact so are not observed much
Indeed, I believe this is a large part of the issue. I avoided people for decades because I found it difficult. Now I avoid them because I enjoy exploring my capabilities without being judged. My parents were very difficult, the father being autistic and the mother a hysteric with depression. I rarely saw the brother, he also was autistic [he had the high intellect but was wrongly diagnosed as schizophrenic. I 'divorced' them years ago and lived a happier life - choosing whom to connect with. I also changed my name and the date of my birthday.
Autism is a big bucket that catches a lot of different presentations and issues.
If she is not struggling and is happy I would be careful about raising the topic. If you are trying hard to fit in being told you don't won't help her confidence. If she is struggling, then be aware you may just get a flat refusal to consider it. It is very hard to bring it up in a positive way.
Any perceived criticism, even sensible help, can be perceived as a threat.
If she is getting close to burnout though then it be wise to encourage her to speak to someone. You don't have to say why, just say your worried a d is the pressure getting to her. Shell probably sat no, but be pleased you asked
Masking has three components and some can be subconscious so you don't know you do them. Or you do know but don't realise other people aren't doing the same. There were lots of things I did without realising or thinking they were a problem.
Thanks for your replies.
I wrote this because I’ve had a very difficult 18 months in the fact that I’ve had a fallout with my best friend over her strange behaviour but she seems to be on the spectrum.I didn’t know at first and turned a blind eye to it.It has only been from talking to various people and doing a psychology diploma that I have learnt that she must be.I know that I can’t diagnose or tell her that she is but she clearly doesn’t know but I have come to conclusion and have learnt that Autism is massive and very complicated.It is also possible that she is unaware that she is masking it hence why she couldn’t tell me that her behaviour wasn’t normal.xx
If you expand it to all ND categories then it is something like a 5x larger pool and the discussion changes when you do this.
It's you who used the term neurodivergent Iain, not I.
I was being specific, you were expanding.
If you had said autistic that would have been correct.
By using the term neurodivergent instead in the way and context that you did, you are actually using the umbrella term that does include 'the whole pool'.
ie:
If you are neurodivergent then there are no clear signs to you that you are different,
I think the people with low functioning autism are not going to be out and about that much for other people to notice and make the observations on them that you talk about.
Wherever they are they will be relating to other people.
You started the discussion talking about autism and that was the basis of my reply
I didn't start this discussion.
These are just my observations though - not hard facts.
Clearly.
I think the people with low functioning autism are not going to be out and about that much for other people to notice and make the observations on them that you talk about.
Wherever they are they will be relating to other people.
You started the discussion talking about autism and that was the basis of my reply
I didn't start this discussion.
These are just my observations though - not hard facts.
Clearly.
Masking has three components
Could you tell me what these are? Many Thanks.xx
Are you you saying all these dictionaries are wrong?
It seems the word does not have the exact meaning you want to believe, but don't let that stop you - I believe there is space for both to be correct.
I’ve already explained the nature of your misunderstanding - including about the nature of dictionary entries, and what can and can’t be inferred from them - here, in B 's thread:
This forum is an autistic space. Accuracy in using language associated with the neurodiversity paradigm and movement is important here. It helps people to understand the benefits of learning to regard neurodivergent people, alongside neurotypical people, as being a natural and equally important part of the human population - which, as a whole, is neurodiverse. These distinctions sit at the heart of the neurodiversity model, and are to our collective benefit - including in securing adjustments / accommodations across various areas of daily life.
Calling neurodivergent people neurodiverse undermines the whole concept, causes confusion, and leads others to adopt the same mistaken beliefs, and to spread that misuse even more widely.
Under the neurodiversity model, neurodiverse is not interchangeable with neurodivergent. The two separate words exist to describe two separate things.
To paraphrase Judy Singer - who, with others, was instrumental in creating and promoting the neurodiversity paradigm, and so is among the most authoritative sources you could wish for, alongside the NAS:
As you might have noticed from other posts and upvotes (eg Wordsmith 's post in the other thread), I am not alone in viewing your misuse of terminology as problematic. I would also gently suggest that, for those readers who do understand and use terminology accurately, your misuse of it lessens your personal credibility in respect of anything else that you might be saying.
Might I suggest reflecting on your own (blunt) advice to others about such learning opportunities?
If you are happy to remain ignorant then it is through choice.
It would be far preferable, in my view, for those of us who get involved in helping and educating others to be using neuroaffirming language accurately, consistently and constructively - and in line with the NAS’s guidance, which is “based on on our language research on the preferences of autistic people, their families and professionals, as well as the feedback and insight we get from our supporters and wider work.”.
Perhaps you are experiencing some personal difficulties in doing so. For example, you have previously mentioned:
my stubborness (and probably some oppositional defiance disorder)
I have done my best to help you learn about this topic, now on several occasions. However, as Phased noted in the Terminology thread, if - for whatever reason - you choose to continue misusing the language around our condition, you might reasonably expect others to keep also gently clarifying it for the benefit of other users - and for the benefit of the wider autistic and neurodivergent communities.
As I've explained previously (including in B 's recent thread here), the population as a whole is neurodiverse.
https://www.dictionary.com/browse/neurodiverse
neurodiverse - having or relating to atypical neurological traits and ways of thinking; not neurotypical.
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/neurodiverse
neurodiverse - having or relating to brain function that is not neurotypical
https://www.collinsdictionary.com/dictionary/english/neurodiverse
neurodiverse - People who have a neurodiverse condition have brains that function in a different way to that usually considered as normal.
Are you you saying all these dictionaries are wrong?
It seems the word does not have the exact meaning you want to believe, but don't let that stop you - I believe there is space for both to be correct.
many of them do not like the thought of equating their suffering to the behaviors of neurotypicals.What do you mean by this?xx
There are some autists who do not like the idea that non-neurotypical people can claim to be on the spectrum. These neurotypical people may have traits similar to autistic ones but they are from a different source (ie not the brain development issue NDs have).
These complainers do not like that NTs can claim to be on the spectrum when technically they are not (by the definition of what the ND spectrum is) and they consider this to be a form of appropriation.
I'm not going to argue the rights and wrongs, just point out that there are some people who will take exception to the statement. See the discussion thread I linked to in my post for more details.
many of them do not like the thought of equating their suffering to the behaviors of neurotypicals.
What do you mean by this?xx
A small portion of the population is neurodiverse
You are still using "neurodiverse" incorrectly.
As I've explained previously (including in B 's recent thread here), the population as a whole is neurodiverse.
In referring to people who are not neurotypical, you mean neurodivergent.
As the NAS explains:
Neurodiversity includes every single human being.
It is common for words related to neurodiversity to be misused. For example, people might say ‘Autistic people are neurodiverse’ when they mean ‘Autistic people are neurodivergent’.
Examples of accurate phrases include:
Humans are neurodiverse.
Autistic people are neurodivergent.
Autism is a form of neurodivergence.
A small portion of the population is neurodiverse
Estimates of the neurodivergent are 15% to 20% in the UK but it includes a few conditions and there will be a good percentage undiagnosed.
O right ok.
Thank you for your responses and your support.Hope you all have a good New Year and 2026 is a good one for all of you.xx
I will ask if she is aware of anything that she does that is autistic but apart from that I won’t take it any further.
I would assess her opinions of autism in general before considering this. Some people have a strong bias against it and even suggesting they could be autistic can cause an extreme reaction.
If you want to do it then maybe print out a list of autistic traits and highlight the ones you have and ask her if she has any - you can use the "we are all on the spectrum" lie to encourage her to join in perhaps.
We are all on the spectrum somewhere
A hugely controvertial thing to say I'm afraid. A small portion of the population is neurodiverse and many of them do not like the thought of equating their suffering to the behaviors of neurotypicals.
I'm not going to debate it here but point you to this thread:
Forgot to say,
Happy New Year Everyone!!xx
From what I have worked out my best friend’s autistic traits are as follows,
Failure of normal back and forth conversations
Unable to convey emotional thoughts to others
Unable to see how their actions will affect other people
Doesn’t like plans changed at last minute.
We are all on the spectrum somewhere so I will ask if she is aware of anything that she does that is autistic but apart from that I won’t take it any further.If and when she does find out,I will be there every step of the way.xx
Autism is a big bucket that catches a lot of different presentations and issues.
If she is not struggling and is happy I would be careful about raising the topic. If you are trying hard to fit in being told you don't won't help her confidence. If she is struggling, then be aware you may just get a flat refusal to consider it. It is very hard to bring it up in a positive way.
Any perceived criticism, even sensible help, can be perceived as a threat.
If she is getting close to burnout though then it be wise to encourage her to speak to someone. You don't have to say why, just say your worried a d is the pressure getting to her. Shell probably sat no, but be pleased you asked
Masking has three components and some can be subconscious so you don't know you do them. Or you do know but don't realise other people aren't doing the same. There were lots of things I did without realising or thinking they were a problem.
Thanks for your replies.
I wrote this because I’ve had a very difficult 18 months in the fact that I’ve had a fallout with my best friend over her strange behaviour but she seems to be on the spectrum.I didn’t know at first and turned a blind eye to it.It has only been from talking to various people and doing a psychology diploma that I have learnt that she must be.I know that I can’t diagnose or tell her that she is but she clearly doesn’t know but I have come to conclusion and have learnt that Autism is massive and very complicated.It is also possible that she is unaware that she is masking it hence why she couldn’t tell me that her behaviour wasn’t normal.xx
