With the number of pages you can read in a day this should only take a couple of hours...

It may help you to understand current terminology.

Calling people names again? (pedant being an offensive term commonly used against autistic people, usually by NT people). 

And, I know this has been explained to you before - you can call yourself an autist all you like but again it may be considered offensive if used by NT people, so best not to label others with it.

Bunny said:

it certainly helps to understand what neurodiverse means

From https://www.dictionary.com/browse/neurodiverse

neurodiverse

1. having or relating to atypical neurological traits and ways of thinking

Bunny said:

Neurodiverse refers to a place, not an individual.

I think you may need to reconsider this definition in light of what the dictionary says, but what do I know?

Yours, 

A neurodiverse individual.

never to late to learn

I use different terminology depending on the situation. I personally have autism and ADHD and I'm aware that many others also have coexisting conditions. It can be difficult to separate my traits and experiences into autism and ADHD so I will often refer to my nd experiences as this covers both. I also think many autistic traits can also affect people with other conditions that come under the nd umbrella so again I will use nd in these circumstances to be inclusive. If I'm talking about something that I think is definitely to do with autism then I will refer to it as autism.

My understanding of the autism spectrum is similar to yours that there are no actual ends. I think they first believed it was like this but they now believe it is a circle split into different areas such as sensory issues, communication, social interaction etc. This seems slightly different to the article you posted but I think the general message is the same. People may sit in different places for different traits. For example, may only have some trouble communicating but are significantly affected by sensory stimuli. This is far more realistic to me than the idea that you're either "really autistic" or just "mildly autistic". There is however, a clear difference in the level of support that autistic people can need. Although sadly those seen as needing less support are regularly left to cope rather than given the support that they do need.

I do not like the statements we're all on the spectrum or all a little bit autistic. It's factually incorrect and takes away from our struggles.

Wow - I guess such pedantry could only come from an autist.

Thank you for pointing out my evil deeds - I must do better, if only my neurodiverse traits didn't include resistance to change 

Iain said:

It helps to understand the meaning of neurodiverse

Whilst it certainly helps to understand what neurodiverse means, I’m afraid that you happen to be an example of someone who currently doesn’t, and who (mis)uses it here a lot. 

If you would be willing to invest some time and effort in learning the terminology, then your posts would be SO much more helpful to people (rather than confusing or misleading) - and they would also help to foster awareness of, and support for, the overall concept of neurodiversity.

Further down (in a purple font) I have pasted an AI summary, which does a fair job of explaining the terminology. 

Unfortunately, you routinely misdescribe people who are neurodivergent as instead being “neurodiverse”.   

Some recent examples:

• “The uni should have support available for neurodiverse students so do you know if she has registered with them to access these?” (here)
  
  
• “Do you know if one or both of her parents are neurodiverse?” (here)
  
  
• “I think most people are very sensitive to having their mistakes highlighted but neurodiverse people often have their reactions magnfied through a combination of cPTSD and poor emotional regulation.” (here)
  
  
• In your reply above, you also presented a list of neurodivergent conditions as if they explain what neurodiverse means (which they don't).

Your usage is not what’s intended under the neurodiversity model; instead, it conflicts with it and confuses readers about its core principles. To quote from Judy Singer, who was the first to theorise and publish on the subject:

"What Neurodiversity is NOT

Since "Diversity" does not mean "Disability"

1. Neurodiversity is NOT a synonym for "Neurological Disability". 

2. Neurodiverse refers to a place, not an individual.

Some advocates want to insist that an individual can be neurodiverse in themselves, because they have different tendencies. This is also absurd unless they have more than one individual nervous system in their bodies. And also it would be a reversion to the medical model of disability. 

Neurodiverse:

- Describes a space, not a person.

- Is literally an "unreal word" in the same sense as an "unreal number", since every location that has more than one individual in it is "Neurodiverse".

- Preferably don’t use it. Use Neurodivergent/Distinct/Minority etc."

I’ve shared these resources before, but will repeat them here:

Emergent Divergence - Neurodiversity: the Basics

NAS - Autism and Neurodiversity

Reflections on Neurodiversity - Judy Singer's Official Definition of Neurodiversity ©

I do appreciate that there is no shortage of people online (including some researchers and medical professionals) who have also misunderstood and used terminology in ways that doesn't align with the model. But we have a great opportunity, here in this forum, to use neuroaffirming language accurately - including to help others learn and use it, too. This is all to our own benefit, as well as that of others.  

A brief overview of neurodiversity and key terms (AI-generated):

Neurodiversity is the concept that the natural variation in how human brains function is a normal and valuable part of human life, much like diversity in gender or ethnicity. It is a biological fact that no two brains are exactly the same. 

The term challenges the idea of a single "normal" or "typical" brain and frames differences not as deficits or disorders, but as natural variations. 

Key Terms Explained 

• Neurodiversity: This is an umbrella term that refers to the diversity of all people's brains globally. The whole of society is neurodiverse, encompassing all neurotypes.
• Neurodivergent: This term describes an individual whose brain processes information in a way that is different from what is considered "typical" by society's dominant standards.
• Neurotypical: This describes people whose brain functions and processes information in the way society generally expects. 

Common Neurodivergent Conditions 

The term neurodivergent is often used in the context of specific conditions, which are viewed as forms of neurodivergence, or "neurominorities": 

• Attention Deficit Hyperactivity Disorder (ADHD)
• Autism Spectrum Condition (ASC)
• Dyslexia (difficulty with reading)
• Dyspraxia (difficulty with coordination)
• Dyscalculia (difficulty with math)
• Tourette syndrome
• Sensory processing differences 

The Neurodiversity Movement 

Originating in the 1990s and led by autistic self-advocates, the neurodiversity movement is a social justice initiative that aims to increase acceptance and inclusion for all neurodivergent people. It advocates for: 

• Valuing and respecting all brain types equally.
• Recognizing that challenges faced by neurodivergent individuals often stem from societal barriers and a lack of support or accommodations, rather than inherent flaws.
• Promoting a strengths-based approach that highlights unique abilities

hehe and segueing into your religious thread (why was that down earlier I wonder?) it's easier for a camel to apss thro' the eye of a needle...!

Well I'm going to say something now thats so last decade, one of the reasons I'm very wary of all these studies is because of low sample numbers, huge leaps are made on the back of 50 people in a test group and that can be one of the higher sample sizes. Even if its a metastudy using the results of 50 studies, it's still going to be a low number of individuals actually studied. It makes me seriously wonder at the value of such metastudies as are they asking the right questions of the data they're studying? If they're not asking the right questions and totally different questions were asked in the original studies then how acurate is the data coming out of them and should we be forming policy on the basis of such flawed research? It could be why so many ND's don't recognise themselves, friends and family members in the stuff that comes out of such studies.

Again a camel has been made by a commitee wanting to make a horse

I agree the language and jargon shifts

Part of the game is to follow the way understanding shifts over time too.  With one research body saying x and another saying y and both of them saying more research is indicated either because the research really didn't come up with any useful answers (OK lets be kind it is a "small step along the way" or because that's a punt at more research funding to keep the researchers in a job maybe!

"things seem to change so fast I could read something this week thats outdated by next week."

oh that's such a last week thing to say!

So much stuff is online these days I wouldn't know where to look or to begin looking, in such a fast developing field things seem to change so fast I could read something this week thats outdated by next week.

I don't find the language used in many of these articles very easy either.

There is an ongoing debate as to whether or not Bipolar Disorder fits the neurodiversity framework and websites that I checked didn’t include it. There is not likely to be consensus over the issue as neurodiversity is a social construct, and perhaps there doesn’t need to be as it is up to individuals to choose how they identify. Some arguments for and against its inclusion include:

For: Differences in brain structure and patterns of cognitive thinking. Some challenges are similar to autism and ADHD.

Against: The episodic nature, fluctuating moods and high need for clinical management.

Actually, since reading about the paradigm of neurodiversity, it seems it’s more about fostering positive relationships and inclusivity rather than anything else. I have never described myself as neurodivergent, but perhaps as a late diagnosed retired person, I’ve just never had the need to say it, although I have told a few people I am autistic, not every time with positive results. I find it quite heartening to think that there are more neurodivergent people than autistic people, as that decreases the percentage of ‘non-neurodivergent’ (NT) people.

https://biologyinsights.com/is-bipolar-disorder-considered-neurodivergent/ 

I have a friend with bipolar, so I will be interested to find out how she sees herself.

ArchaeC said:

The medical classification of autism as a deficit is far from satisfactory

Do you have a preference?

I think just autism/autistic comes with far less baggage/assumptions/connotations as it is a simple descriptive term.

Cinnabar_wing said:

This has been a fascinating thread B

I am pleased to hear that 

Thank you for the feedback.

This has been a fascinating thread B, it's really got people thinking about what we mean and what we say. I do appreciate the accuracy, and I will endeavour to make sure what I say is what I mean.

TheCatWoman said:

I often wonder why so many things are being reclassified as ND, like dyslexia or Bi-Polar, I wonder if this is overstretching neurodiversity? 

It helps to understand the meaning of neurodiverse. From https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neurodiversity

The neurodiversity paradigm is a framework for understanding human brain function that considers the diversity within sensory processing, motor abilities, social comfort, cognition, and focus as neurobiological differences. 

Neurodivergences include 
autism, 
attention deficit hyperactivity disorder (ADHD), 
bipolar disorder (BD), 
developmental prosopagnosia, 
developmental speech disorders, 
dyslexia, 
dysgraphia, 
dyspraxia, 
dyscalculia, 
dysnomia, 
intellectual disability, 
obsessive–compulsive disorder, 
schizophrenia, 
sensory processing disorder (SPD), 
synesthesia, and 
Tourette syndrome.

They do all seem to have similar origins so are logically grouped.

TheCatWoman said:

So much has changed since I was diagnosed 13 years ago I can't keep up. Maybe it's a sign of me getting older? 

I don't think it is an age thing, more of an effort thing. Before you would have tried to learn and understand but that can be a lot of work to keep abreast of all the developments.

Do you keep up with the things that fascinate you? You do say you read a great deal so you probably just don't allocate time and energy to keeping up to date on this ND stuff - no judgement, just something that may explain it.

ah, I wasn't able to read it like that B  :-)

There is a misunderstanding here.

I am not in the least concerned about what comes under the ND umbrella but rather the use of the umbrella term when the particular condition is meant.

B said:

I've read actually that it's not a medical term but just one that's been used on and off over the years

Yes, I should have made that clear. 

Unfortunately the terms ‘low functioning’ and ‘high functioning’ are too often used by psychiatrists, psychologists and other people who may be involved in the diagnostic process.

You have highlighted an important point though, that medical people have no justification for using these terms, which is more than can be said for the ‘disorder’ in ASD.