Women and gay men

Hello,

I hope I am not too awkward. I could discuss things in my past, but that would be very complicated. I am more inclined to talk about something very recent. 

People in other forums have found me offensive, and it is hard for me to understand why. This terrifies me, since I am afraid of doing the wrong thing. If people start to attack me, I will disappear. 

I have been taking ketamine infusions in a psychiatric clinic on a regular basis. During this experience, things "come up," which seems to mean that normally repressed material becomes conscious. In a few recent infusions, I've noticed that I seem to be bothered by some scorn and really intense hatred that I have received from women in my life. (My mother being a dramatic exception.) Men hate me too, but women's hatred seems to be especially emotional and out of control. One thing that is especially jarring about this is that I am a gay man, and stereotypically I should get along with women really well. It is disturbing, and actually rather frightening, how women actually treat me. I haven't got much feedback as to why I am so offensive, but some people -- men actually -- have observed that I am "too nerdy" or "too nervous." 

Given that I'm gay, you might wonder why I would care if women hate me or not. But it is disconcerting to be attacked by anyone, and my ketamine experiences seem to indicate that this is a genuine issue for me. So I asked my psychotherapist why this should be the case. He informed me that women hate gay men, because they see them as not being real men. This made no sense to me, since women are actually supposed to get along with gay men really well. I even showed my therapist an article about how scientists find this fact so striking that they are trying to study it: https://theconversation.com/the-science-behind-why-so-many-women-want-to-befriend-gay-men-51965

After he read this, denied that he had ever said that women hated gay men. To the best of my recollection, he then said the following:

"I did not say that women hate gay men. I said that hysterical women hate gay men. Neurosis takes two forms: hysteria and obsessiveness. Most neurotic women are hysterical. Most neurotic men are obsessive. The hysterical woman feels that she needs a phallus. A phallus is not a penis. The phallus has absolutely nothing to do with the penis. Mistaking the phallus for the penis is a terrible mistake, it is completely wrong. The phallus is Nietzsche's will to power. The phallus is completion. Hysterical women desperately need a phallus. They hate gay men, because they see them as dickless men."

I feel bad about this "explanation." I don't feel that it answers my original question as to why I make women so angry. The real question is why gay men typically have experiences with women that are completely opposite to mine. I don't feel that my therapist has explained this. I can tell myself that hysterical women hate me, but then I still don't understand why so many women hate me because I don't understand why I keep crossing paths with hysterical women. Furthermore, how do hysterical women even know that I am gay? I don't broadcast it. 

Before hearing my therapist's "explanation," I was a bit more inclined to think that women are sensitive to certain social cues that men are less sensitive to. I was also thinking that I very bad with those cues, thus sending women the wrong signal. But I can't be more specific than that, because I really don't understand it. 

  • like the ops example, some person screaming at him shouting loudly for all to hear accusations that hes a criminal with no real reason.... that is infact hysterical by the meaning...

    Not only was there someone acting that way, she is -- believe it or not -- a psychology professor. 

  • I am very eager to hear your progress towards self confidence and wholeness! We are all on the forum rooting for you, I'm sure

    Thank you for saying that!

  • its literally just a descriptive word meaning hysterical....hysterical meaning ...well crazy... but its own type... its like asking what crazy means, you cant describe it because its its own word, crazy means crazy, hysterical means hysterical... youd know it by someone taking something small and going wild about it and screaming in your face.... like the ops example, some person screaming at him shouting loudly for all to hear accusations that hes a criminal with no real reason.... that is infact hysterical by the meaning...

    its just language.... its ...i dunno... i dunno how to describe to you what i feel people are doing with words here.... take any descriptive word... say... "handsome" .... its just a descriptive word, you know its meaning, but then its like me saying its offensive for some reason, and evil and if you use it your racist against ...say... etheopians for some reason or whatever.... it doesnt make sense... i dont get this taking of a basic descriptive word and then adding evil to it when it doesnt mean evil. then it limits peoples use of vocabulary and then we have a world of limited words where you have to hesistate as you dont know how to speak no more, the words and vocabulary youd fluidly use you cannot use and the alternate words either dont exist or are not as exact or are simply not the type of word on your tongue so you lose fluidity of language 

  • hysteria doesnt mean anything to do with women at all, its a perfectly valid word that isnt sexist and isnt a bad word directed at women

    X for doubt. I find that impossible to take seriously when you must have no idea how women were uniquely medically oppressed either historically as this was literally the first result I found on search engine https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hysteria you only have to look as far as the second sentence to see it mention women.

  • Tell us about your "eccentric interests, please.

  • for the note.... hysteria doesnt mean anything to do with women at all, its a perfectly valid word that isnt sexist and isnt a bad word directed at women. if thats what people are thinking it means here they are mistaken and need to look up the word and understand all the contexts it can be used in.

    a religious person screaming about the end of the world can be described as hysterical for example....

    a person screaming at this guy randomly and accusing him of criminal acts and drawing mass attention to it can validly be called hysterical whether it was male or female who did that it doesnt matter. the word still applies and is valid.

  • I don't think so, in general. Being drawn to or away from another person is a personal experience and can't be generalized. We are all individuals, not stereotypes.

  • Not critical at all. I left people alone. But, you know, people from the States, as I am, are often perceived as being simultaneously arrogant and completely idiotic. 

  • Ditch this twisted Freudian fossil narcissist:  "Hysteria"?, Really?, In 2023?

    He's not playing with a full desk, judging by your quotes.

    Perhaps, try a female therapist (who has read a book published after 1940) to work through this problem. She will have first hand experience of being female and can help you plumb the depths of whatever this blockage is so you can regain your balance and broaden your social horizons.

    I was born female and while growing up was drawn to the gay boys all the time. I still am. We were the ones at recess, circling the perimeter fence around the 1950's playgrounds, alone, bewildered, waiting for the mother-ship to come fetch us home, as obviously, we were of another planet/reality not the one we found ourselves on.

    You may have not had that joy and were more isolated. We cant give you adequate therapy here on the forum, but we can say a new therapist could. Think how you came to be in the care of the antediluvian therapist you've got now and avoid that way of choosing one in the future.

    I, for my part, edging towards my 70's, have a broader range of friends now, now that I've lost the self doubt and shame of a false, stigmatic, soul-crushing, previous diagnosis - one often having been given to females with autism in the past -, and I've learned to stand within my authenticity with more comfort and confidence.

    I wish this for you as well.

    I am very eager to hear your progress towards self confidence and wholeness! We are all on the forum rooting for you, I'm sure.

  • One reason I was fired from a job just a few years ago was that supposedly I think I'm better than everyone else. What can I say?

    Do you have a strong moral compas and believe there is only one way to do a job? If this is the case and you were critical of people doing it poorly or "wrongly" then I can see this being the cause of the issue.

  • One reason I was fired from a job just a few years ago was that supposedly I think I'm better than everyone else. What can I say? What do you think? I would say it's completely the opposite, I think I'm worse than everyone else. But I give this impression of being an awful person. 

  • Have you spoken to your therapist about what behaviours of yours are likely to have caused this in the past?

    I think it's things as simple as facial expression, eccentric interests, childish sense of humor, and so forth. 

  • I can also say that through my life, many many people have found me offensive and awful.

    Have you spoken to your therapist about what behaviours of yours are likely to have caused this in the past? Understanding and modifying these behaviours seems to be the best way to avoid all the resulting stress.

  • I can also say that through my life, many many people have found me offensive and awful. My point is that, under the influence of ketamine, I came to realize more consciously how much I regret clashes with women, and also even simple failures to connect. 

  • I don't socialize any more, and I don't work -- unless doing something silly like writing a book counts as work. Anyway, my basic point was that the ketamine caused me to realize how much I *regret* not having gotten along better with at least some women in my life. I'm afraid that my therapist's remarks introduced too much negativity into the conversation, but I was concerned about his remarks as well. 

  • What I meant was are you having the same issues with Brazilian women that you had in the USA?

    I found that you are allowed a lot more leaway in making the odd socual faux pas when you are from a different culture and don't speak the language well, so if your issues before were mostly down to inappropriate conversations then you would probably find this issue has gone away whereas if it was down to staring then you will still have the issue.

  • How are your interactions in Brazil going? Is the language barrier stopping you from speaking to them as much?

    I speak but do not hear. Actually, that's not quite true. If the person has the right accent and avoids slang, I can usually understand them. 

  • I know that people say I act nervous. That probably makes me seem guilty. 

    You shared symptoms with a potentially guilty terrorist so it is entirely expected that this will happen.

    Have you tried techniques to reduce your anxiety?

    I do a lot of flying and it never fails to generate plenty of anxiety so I learned a mix of mindfulness and meditation to control it so I can dial it down even when it looks like a cancellation has just left me 6,000 miles from home in a scummy airport with nowhere to stay for a day while I try to find a new way home.

    As for Brazilian women, I spent 36 years of my life in the US, and am thinking of many women there

    How are your interactions in Brazil going? Is the language barrier stopping you from speaking to them as much?

  • Psychotherapy is supposed to be an important part of my "integration" of my ketamine experiences.  As for Brazilian women, I spent 36 years of my life in the US, and am thinking of many women there. What sometimes seems to happen is that a woman feels anger but doesn't express it. It builds and builds and builds until it explodes. So the question of what I was doing at the time, doesn't actually arise. On the other hand, my being singled out at the airport as a potential terrorist and being delayed in my boarding may have something to do with how I was acting at the time. I know that people say I act nervous. That probably makes me seem guilty. 

  • Doing some research on non-verbal communication might help prevent this type of escalation. Is there any possibility of group therapy sessions including women? This would be a supervised environment were participants would feel safe and  would be aware that the others in the session will have problems. You would then be in a better position to discuss the reaction you get from women and, hopefully, find the cause.