Is Santa silly?

IntenseWorld said:

Finally, why on earth would an autism support group tell children that Santa doesn't exist?

I'm not sure why you need to ask this question but the group could have a philosophy of wanting children to know the truth or the organisers could hold the view that Santa is silly in this day and age.

Your thinking style is very strange.

Isn't one of the cornerstones of ASD supposed to be a strange style of thinking?

It's like for example a charity that claims to feed the starving, they get loads of money in funding and donations but spend the majority of it on campaigns, awards, meetings, lectures, offices...etc and then has a tiny budget to actually provide the food.

When I was diagnosed the NHS told me to contact NAS and I will get help...all NAS did was send me a load of PDF files of other organisations..it's like me asking the other charity for food and they tell me to go to Oxfam.

Maybe all these non tangible things the money goes on does so because they all provide ways of filtering money into other peoples hands without people being able to raise questions... such as paying other companies consultancy fees, management fees, or paying well over the going rate for tangilble things etc....and I wouldn't be surprised if half the board had conflicts of interest within these other companies....it's very very easy to do and the fact that they pay themselves huge salaries shows that they are involved for financial gain only... are the people running NAS treating it like a gravy train ?

Most of the big charities are the same.. I mean how on earth can charities give 5% of a christmas card back into the charity ? where the heck is the money going ? Especially when sold directly and not through a retailer.......if Clintons made 5% on cards then they would not have a business, cards cost pennies and sell for pounds, the margins on cards is at least 60% - maybe they buy them at an over inflated rate from a company they have interests in, get another company they have interest in to deliver them, rent the warehouse from another company they have interest in, pay a ridiculous design fee...etc....all this is completely legal so the accounts look cosher and nobody has any cause for concern.

As you made a claim that there are better and cheaper sources of support elsewhere that reads as if you are talking about specific places.  The point is not where I am located, but I am interested.  If for no other reason than I run an autism information FB page.

Don't see what Santa has to do with it either.  You already diverted the thread entirely away from the original question by complaining about the NAS so why should anyone else stay on topic.

Finally, why on earth would an autism support group tell children that Santa doesn't exist?

Your thinking style is very strange.

IntenseWorld said:

Please do state where.  I am not agreeing or disagreeing with opinions on the NAS here, I have previously stated how NAS policies affected my family elsewhere.

I just want to know where these other sources of support are.

How long is a piece of string? I have no idea where you are located or what your specific needs and requirements are. Would you be happy if the local support group organisers told the children that Father Christmas doesn't exist?!

Arran said:

 There are better (and cheaper) sources of support elsewhere.

Please do state where.  I am not agreeing or disagreeing with opinions on the NAS here, I have previously stated how NAS policies affected my family elsewhere.

I just want to know where these other sources of support are.

I found the NAS to be useless and unhelpful when I was a young teenager. I have advised many families with children of average to above average intelligence with Asperger syndrome to avoid the NAS at all costs if they do not require residential care services and find the NAS schools to be unsuitable for their children's needs. There are better (and cheaper) sources of support elsewhere.

Criticism of the NAS almost always falls on deaf ears. Another regularly occuring criticism is that the NAS is dominated by a small cabal of parents and carers who's main interest is how much money they can obtain from the government. Rarely are they interested in helping or supporting children if it doesn't bring in money to the NAS or local authorities are unable or unwilling to hand over the cash.

The fact that criticism of the NAS seems to be from separate and independent sources rather than a collaboration and it isn't stoked up by the mainstream media further reinforces that the NAS is doing lots of things wrong and not in the interests of the people it is supposed to be helping.

If thousands of people are criticizing any organisation then that organisation must be doing something wrong. People don't criticsize for no reason at all. In the case of NAS all you ever see is criticism.

Alex R - mod said:

You've several times called for the views of non-Christian religious people on the topics in this thread. It may just be that there aren't any reading it, or that they don't wish to contribute. There's not a lot to be gained by demanding people get involved if they don't want to or aren't there.

Maybe this discussion provides further evidence for the aforementioned criticism of the NAS - although it isn't a criticism I have made personally.

Arran said:

I suspect that there are lots of NAS members who propagate the Santa lie to their children but haven't got the guts to admit it here. Considering that about half the parents at my local independent AS support group lie about Santa to their children then the NAS is probably even worse in this regard. My experience of the NAS is that it's more concerned about image than the truth.

It's really not the business of the NAS, as a charity, to take any position on this topic at all. I think you're also conflating 'NAS members' with 'the NAS as an institution' in a way which may be misleading. Individual NAS members may do all sorts of things without the slightest implication that the charity takes any official view on those things at all.

You've several times called for the views of non-Christian religious people on the topics in this thread. It may just be that there aren't any reading it, or that they don't wish to contribute. There's not a lot to be gained by demanding people get involved if they don't want to or aren't there.

Alex R (posting personally)

I suspect that there are lots of NAS members who propagate the Santa lie to their children but haven't got the guts to admit it here. Considering that about half the parents at my local independent AS support group lie about Santa to their children then the NAS is probably even worse in this regard. My experience of the NAS is that it's more concerned about image than the truth.

A discussion about Santa has taken place at the local AS support group before. No consensus was reached although it was acknowledged that the increasing numbers of children who follow a religion other than Christianity and don't celebrate Christmas adds a new dimension into the argument that didn't exist in the past. It also increases the likelihood of classmates exposing the truth at a much younger age than in a school where every family celebrates Christmas and does the Santa lie. Are there any parents who have children in a school where the children who celebrate Christmas are clearly a minority? In some schools it has reached a point where Christmas is only found in RE lessons and there are no decorations installed in December, Nativity plays, Christmas themed events etc. because it has no meaning to the children. The environment a child grows up in shapes their brain. If they are surrounded by large numbers of children who don't celebrate Christmas then their views on Christmas will surely be different from a child living in an environment where everybody celebrates Christmas. I know this from personal experiences.

'does the yeti  exist'

Person a) no because there is no clear photographic evidence

Person b) but my mate john says it does

Person a) surely by now with all the reports of sightings someone would have take a clear picture.

Person b) but my mate jeff says he's knows someone who has seen it.

Because no evidence exists either way, person a is trying to reason through logic, person b however despite knowing there is no evidence simply chooses to put forward other people's views which contain no evidence either.  Honestly, it's like trying to describe fractal equations to someone who cannot even add up.

Like I said, there can never be any proof because nobody has done extensive research on adults that did/did not were/were not believe/told about santa therefore anything copied and pasted is merely hypothetical and not worthy of delving into.

My parting shot will be:

So it's alright for you to quote but not me [insert exasperated eye roll].  That was a rhetorical question BTW, in case that is in any way unclear.

The title of this thread is "is Santa silly".  It's not Santa that is silly...

I'm off to more productive threads/activities.

"Even if you are a minority of one, the truth is the truth". - Mahatma Gandhi

Erm, I think saying that I was not scarred by it is more than sufficient insight.  What more evidence do you want for my opinion?

You are missing the point regarding gravity and have not mentioned the other things I list.  You also do not take on board the content of quotes I posted.  Whether it is my own evidence or someone else's is beside the point.  You have been given evidence that what you say is wrong and you refuse to accept it.

I just cannot go round in circles with this any more, enjoy yourself combating anyone who disagrees with you whilst the thread remains won't you.

You agree with the quotes but you offer no insight of your own as to why.

If you want proof of gravity then drop something from a height and you can witness it, just because some things cannot be proved does not mean they do not exist, but using other facts we can conclude almost beyond certaintly they do - like finding the value of x in an equation.

If you want reasons, read the quotes that I put.  I agree with what they said, that such myths are a valuable part of growing up, contribute to a child's development and are not harmful.  Many of us have said it didn't harm us.  What other insights would you like!

Is there scientific proof that there is dark matter in the universe?  Is there scientific proof of gravity?  Is there scientific proof of worm holes?  And yet they are all hypothetical as are many other things.

You are the one who cannot answer with their own mind I am afraid (other than dogged misconceptions).  You have still omitted to respond to many salient points that have been posted, you just go on the attack and accuse me of not having any intelligence.  I am sure readers of this thread can see what's going on here and I don't need to say any more than that.

theres nothing wrong with quoting others for the purpose of using facts to back up things that you do not know yourself, but we are talking hypothetically, nobody can have any evidence one way or the other apart from the evidence seen through the process, wisdom and logic. There can never be any scientific proof unless a study of thousands of adults who did/did not believe in santa claus was undertaken. Then such things as their IQ, current job, success, current beliefs etc could be measured and we could have enough evidence to gauge the differences between those that did and those that did not or were or were not believed/told...

I have at least attempted to come up with reasons why telling lies to children about father christmas is wrong through offering insight, you offer no insight at all and just quote sources. .. just like a christian who cannot answer any questions with their own mind at all and just quote the bible.

I am non-denominational, so my opinion is not informed by religious bias.  Naturally you want a variety of opinions, but as I said, I thought this thread was about Santa being "a lie" and not religion.  I have already given examples of where other religions celebrate their own myths as being true (or "lies" according to some).

IntenseWorld said:

...and there was me thinking this thread was about a myth being told as a lie, rather than a religious discussion...

I want to see things from their perspective as well as yours.