Funny moments of realisation

I think this one sort of fits. I called I with my parents for dinner yesterday. While I'm doing the dishes, my mum walks in and says 'how's it going with your bed?' I said 'The new electric blanket's working out pretty well thanks'. She looked at me in an 'are you taking the piss?' way, and I stood for a few seconds trying to work out why. Then I realised she meant the back room bunkbeds (the previous houseowner left them and they were useful for occasional nephew stay-overs for a time) that I'd spent a not inconsiderable amount of time the day before partially dismantling with an allen key and screwdriver. And hammer! 

I don't know whether it was that the singular 'bed' vs plural 'bunkbeds' just automatically deleted the way more relevant thing from my mind, but a touch of over-literality does seem to leave me prone to missing the obvious sometimes. The flipside is that I sometimes get to see round corners on other things in ways most people don't. Though that can hurt as much as it helps, there is less blissful ignorance to be had in life. 

I did find reading this message to be another one of those instances where you reflect on what you read and see yourself in it. I too can take things quite literally, or if I miss the prompts, assume I’m having a different conversation to the one the other party is having.

I was involved in an online meeting with a few other people in a similar job role to myself. The person leading the meeting asked us to come up with an idea in response to a certain question. We all did so. After, they turned to the first person and directly asked what their response was, we all listened, they turned to the next person and directly asked what their response was. I was rehearsing my response, as I do in these moments. They then turned to me and asked “So how are you doing?” This, not only was different wording to what I’d prepared myself for, but in my eyes was a totally different question. I didn’t know how to reply at that point and everything went out of my head as I battled the urge to explain how I was, emotionally, in response to the wording of their question, rather than what I anticipated the question to be. Rather than asking how I was doing, they were asking, how are you doing in response to the question. I had to ask for confirmation of what I was actually being asked in the end. I get the impression that they thought I was either unprepared or that I wasn’t listening properly. All resolved in the end, but for me, wording is quite helpful, so the more specific you can be, the better.

Although, the burden of understanding, considering communication is a two way thing, doesn’t lie solely with me in this instance. As is quite possibly the case with the example you mentioned. Very interesting to read though, so thanks for your reply.

I did find reading this message to be another one of those instances where you reflect on what you read and see yourself in it. I too can take things quite literally, or if I miss the prompts, assume I’m having a different conversation to the one the other party is having.

I was involved in an online meeting with a few other people in a similar job role to myself. The person leading the meeting asked us to come up with an idea in response to a certain question. We all did so. After, they turned to the first person and directly asked what their response was, we all listened, they turned to the next person and directly asked what their response was. I was rehearsing my response, as I do in these moments. They then turned to me and asked “So how are you doing?” This, not only was different wording to what I’d prepared myself for, but in my eyes was a totally different question. I didn’t know how to reply at that point and everything went out of my head as I battled the urge to explain how I was, emotionally, in response to the wording of their question, rather than what I anticipated the question to be. Rather than asking how I was doing, they were asking, how are you doing in response to the question. I had to ask for confirmation of what I was actually being asked in the end. I get the impression that they thought I was either unprepared or that I wasn’t listening properly. All resolved in the end, but for me, wording is quite helpful, so the more specific you can be, the better.

Although, the burden of understanding, considering communication is a two way thing, doesn’t lie solely with me in this instance. As is quite possibly the case with the example you mentioned. Very interesting to read though, so thanks for your reply.

No apologies necessary. I can sometimes get a bit lost in the layout (if that’s what you call it) of the responses, I also sometimes take a step back for processing, or possibly something else takes up my focus. Both of which, the slow but steady nature of the forum allows for.

A delayed response, which really is in the eye of the beholder, is just as appreciated as any other response and certainly isn’t expected or taken for granted. 

My example really highlights how a lot of my interactions go, which it sounds like you can relate to. I’m trying to recognise that others don’t necessarily reflect on them as much as me, perhaps they don’t even spare a second thought on them. As a result, it’s worth leaving them in the past and chalking it up as just ‘another one that got slightly away from me’. I think if I can internalise this more casual approach, I might be a bit kinder to myself when they ‘pop’ back into my head unexpectedly (those embarrassing memories that keep you a ale at night).

Sorry for seeing and replying to this so late. Poor you, that was a horribly unfortunate twist in a situation you’d rehearsed for, and I know I’d have been thrown in exactly the same way. I feel like I’ve had so many of those too. An apparent non-sequitur that everyone else can see as an adjunct to, rather than departure from, the established context. Word choices are, like you say, a two way street so maybe taking all the embarrassment on ourselves is silly if somewhat inevitable 

Unknown said:

I suppose masking is a bit like fake it till you make it but it's quite subconscious

I hadn’t really thought about this side of things. I do mask, quite subconsciously, a lot. It’s very noticeable to others when that starts to ‘slip’ when I’m spinning too many plates (to borrow a very unusual term). I think for me, the fake it till you make it side of things more applies to people not really caring enough (without meaning to be too harsh sounding) about something to actually be good at something. Loudest voice in the room and all of that. Where as masking, for me at least, is about trying to be relatable to those that actually can’t quite relate in the ways that I need them to. 

The question of ‘does it really matter?’ Is a good one. I might try and apply this idea a little in my own life. It’s good to advocate for yourself is what I’m learning. This is, of course, much easier some days vs. others. Today I would have been useless at it! Tomorrow, perhaps not.

Unknown said:

Rather than just saying for example that we can struggle with XYZ, I need to understand the why's! 

Why was always my favourite question growing up. I’m pleased to say, it still is! Why is very important to me. It goes back to the understanding and certainty side of things. I think more people should ask why to things. 

More questions = more opportunity to learn and understand. This is probably an oversimplification, but a nice idea to start a series of thoughts from!

Oakling said:

This whole ‘fake it until you make it’ approach that so many are happy to apply really doesn’t work for me.

For me theres a strong need for things to be authentic (ie right!) and so if I see through people who are faking it till they make it, I have some sort of difficulty with them in my head. They might have much less anxiety though.... (Also I suppose masking is a bit like fake it till you make it but it's quite subconscious). I feel as ive developed I'm taking people more as they are, maybe cos I'm trying to do it a bit more with myself. 

I feel, for some people, they don't need certainty too much and they are able to accept a general sense of something and be ok with that. I'm trying a bit more now to ask "does it really matter". For instance today I collected a parcel off my neighbour. In the past she wouldve wanted lots of chat and I wouldve masked but today I didn't and it was a purposeful transaction. When I came in I wondered if I should've had a bit of chat....but I didn't want to. I didn't want to and that's ok! So I've listened to my own needs and been assertive with myself which is a small chipping away.

I do feel better in understanding a bit more in depth about autism such as monotropism, inertia, and sensory things (I think a lot of it is ideas...it seems nobody really "knows" fully what autism is) but knowing a bit more from a different angle helps. Rather than just saying for example that we can struggle with XYZ, I need to understand the why's! 

It's nice to hear from someone who "gets" some of the same experience. Everyone is different and there are so many different experiences of being autistic. A lot of the time I can't relate to others on the spectrum. 

It’s fascinating to see a take on things from a perspective that I entirely agree with, due to seeing it that way myself. I apologise if I’m overstating it, but it really doesn’t happen that often. It’s actually kind of refreshing.

Unknown said:

knot of frustration when it comes down to matter of principle.

A great description of the internal battles I face when something is ‘wrong’. E.g. someone parks in another spot, when they usually park elsewhere, even though that original spot is still free (this really sets me off, due to the lack of logic and not understanding the sudden and temporary change, when a change like that for me would be huge and take prep time).

I too see detail first. The importance of selecting the right word and a lack of vagueness, in my opinion, are the cornerstones of understanding and communication. This whole ‘fake it until you make it’ approach that so many are happy to apply really doesn’t work for me. Why not put time and effort, especially if you’re there anyway, into becoming genuinely good/efficient at what you do?

Unknown said:

Autistics need certainty but because of the difference in communication we will mostly never get this.

I fear that you could be correct in this. And yet, certainty could surely benefit everyone. But perhaps, people who are not autistic, will not really ever be able to see what certainty looks like for an autistic person (perhaps too much of a generalisation here on my part, but just thinking ‘out loud’ at this point).

Unknown said:

Sorry it's a tangent to your original post but I don't need asking twice to talk about autism.

No need to apologise as far as I’m concerned. Tangents are sort of my thing too, increasingly autism is becoming a real interest for me as well. It’s been interesting listening (or rather, reading) to what you have to say.

Oakling said:

Some things just don’t bother other people and genuinely aren’t on their radars. Perhaps this is one just to let go. 

I agree with this altho my experience at work is that it does bother others but I sense that they don't get that knot of frustration when it comes down to matter of principle. I do think we have to choose our battles for our own sanity and sometimes there's a difference between doing your job right and getting the job done. Others seem to be able to do this second nature. It's good you have your wife to discuss with and help navigate and get different perspectives from.

I wonder if my strong sense of right or wrong pervades absolutely everything. And bottom up processing of detail first. It is important that I am understood by others. That an interaction goes correctly. I often take time to choose the word I see fits correctly. I think a lot of my overthinking of interactions comes from needing to understand everything that happened and there be no uncertainty, rather than social anxiety. Whereas other people seem to get by with vagueness and interactions being transient in nature. To me it's a double edged sword.  Autistics need certainty but because of the difference in communication we will mostly never get this.

I've found while integrating the diagnosis I can stop holding myself to "neurotypical" standards because I now know i am not "neurotypical". It gives us permission to be ourselves.

Sorry it's a tangent to your original post but I don't need asking twice to talk about autism.

Unknown said:

I understand perfectly what you mean.

I’ve not communicated particularly well in my face-to-face interactions today. Lots going on- one of those days. It’s nice to know that I’ve managed to say what I’d hoped for here.

There is a lot of hiding my confusion. Rather, there was. I’m starting to ask a lot more now. The diagnosis sort of gave me the go ahead to start asking. I know I shouldn’t have felt like I had to wait, but it felt like that bit of paper gave me the right to start asking all of a sudden (if you consider 2 years later to be sudden!).

Im keen to learn more. I get a lot from the people on here, but I will look into the course you recommended. I certainly feel I’m more forgiving of myself now, but I’m also aware that I’ve still got a long way to go. My understanding of autism and myself as an autistic person is in its infancy, or at least my reflections on life pre-diagnosis are.

Unknown said:

Pre diagnosis, I hadn't really gone through life feeling I had a deficit but I had felt different and still do. I did often feel I was the problem or why couldnt I do it like everyone else. The narrative around autism is that of deficits when it should be about difference. 

This is something I can relate to as well. Different rather than deficit is how I saw / see myself. A narrative shift is definitely in order. Perhaps we, collectively speaking, will be the driving force behind that change.

Right and wrong is very important to me. I’ve been applying my logic to a particular situation at work that has been bothering me, but when speaking to my wife, I realise that the situation cannot be assessed that way, as others aren’t necessarily applying logic to the decisions that they are making. Or at least not in the way I see it anyway. Some things just don’t bother other people and genuinely aren’t on their radars. Perhaps this is one just to let go. 

Please don’t feel like you have to stop your thought process on my behalf though, I’ve genuinely enjoyed reading your comments here. Very relatable stuff. Of course, I’ll respect your choice to leave it there too though. Thanks for sharing. I look forward to reading more, whenever that will be.

I understand perfectly what you mean. I think being a female, or just naturally how I am, I am able to get away with not understanding some things and there's also heavy masking. But a lot of the confusion gets internalised. It might be different for others. The misunderstandings seems to come (and blow up) only with certain people. I would really recommend the course on Futurelearn about autism. This is where I learnt a lot about double empathy and its really changed how I see myself and others. It just means I can let go of things more now. And also not be hard on myself or get as frustrated with others. 

Pre diagnosis, I hadn't really gone through life feeling I had a deficit but I had felt different and still do. I did often feel I was the problem or why couldnt I do it like everyone else. The narrative around autism is that of deficits when it should be about difference. 

I have other ideas about how our need for things to be right can impact on communication or interactions but I'll end up going off on one so I'll leave it there (for now!).

Unknown said:

processing time needed to work out what's going on

I think this has been one of my primary thoughts on the matter in the past. I’ve constantly felt confused by the actions of those around me (perhaps that is a slight exaggeration, but I’m not sure it is sometimes), so therefore I think my confusion is a result of me misunderstanding, not others. I think it stems from the very poor view I have of myself. My self-esteem is very low. It always has been. People say nice things to me, but I just can’t see it. I tend to blame myself first in scenarios of misunderstanding. This is something, with a growing understanding of double empathy, that I am working on. Perhaps this will then have the knock in effect of increasing my sense of self worth. Who knows.

I also wonder if it feels more morally ‘right’ to me, to shoulder responsibility if a situation is confusing. It almost seems like the polite thing to take the burden of not understanding, rather than causing embarrassment to someone else. This is an example of my quite fixed mindset on right and wrong I think. It’s quite a misplaced worry in hindsight. Another thing I’m working on. 

I think if you spend so long on the peripheries observing confusing situations, you can’t help but wonder who is misunderstand what. It’s easy to form the conclusion, being the common denominator, that the confusion lies with me. This isn’t written very well, so perhaps what I’m trying to get across won’t translate, but I’m not managing to word it in any other way at the minute.

But, as you say

Unknown said:

now I understand about double empathy,  it's no one's "fault" it's just the situation.

This is where I’m heading now. It’s a much healthier mindset to hold. It’s going to take discipline and practice for me to internalise it though, as I’m very much used to being quite hard on myself.

What are yoyr thoughts? For me, I think it comes from not being able to stand up for myself but also processing time needed to work out what's going on and people pleasing. And that I'm used to accepting it. Now I recognise it more, I am learning to be more assertive! Also now I understand about double empathy,  it's no one's "fault" it's just the situation.

Wording is better if it's specific. I'm quite a good communicator but I think it's more a polite directness that I have. Vagueness and change of context throw me.

Unknown said:

However I always feel its me who shoulders it.

This I can most definitely relate to. I’d like to know why I feel this way- I have some thoughts on the matter, but nothing conclusive as of yet.

In response to your two examples, I could very much picture myself in both of them. The bouncing round of conversations is something I don’t respond brilliantly to (in terms of keeping up). I often refer to it as a sensation of whiplash, jerking from one conversation to another. Likewise, wording can be tricky to decode sometimes too.

Your reaction to closing the door would have been mine. Why do neurotypicals talk about one thing and then expect you to get a comment about something new and unrelated? 

Your last paragraph is very true. It used to be said by someone "come on, put two and two together". First this used to make me feel I was stupid.  Secondly I thought it was their problem.  Now I know it's probably a good dose of the doubly empathy problem. However I always feel its me who shoulders it.

I walked through the downstairs door once from the daughty hall. As i just did, my partner asked "can you shut the door, it's cold" so I did. But he didn't mean the one I walked through,  he meant the back door that was open to the outside. I asked how I was supposed to know he meant the one I hadn't just walked through. But apparently it was obvious which door he meant. I don't know if some of it is just general communication between 2 people or man/woman but I've had other instances too elsewhere which have required a leap of faith and double processing in order to get through it.

Talking to someone about a particular topic for a few mins then she said "so what have you got going on?" she meant in relation to the topic but I didn't know if she had just meant in my general life. I turned to my partner who instinctively knew I was confused and he filled the gap.