Feeling more isolated as you grow older.

Hi Goatworshiper, you've compelled me to make my first post. I understand the feeling of isolation. I've struggled all my life with social interaction, not knowing why, until my recent diagnosis on the ASD spectrum at 42. 

Part of the problem for me is actually needing and enjoying being alone, a huge relief from years of having to mask my symptoms in order to get on in the world. Unfortunately  the chaotic working world does not agree with me, previous attempts at working have resulted in me making purposeful yet unsuccessful suicide attempts. The last being 2 yrs ago when my mother passed away after an intense battle with lung cancer, my support was gone, part of me died. So I thought a jump into The Thames would resolve that. Another unsuccessful attempt. I do fear for the future. 

Ultimately though, I think we are all survivors, us people on the spectrum. I find Facebook has been a lifeline for me. It's much easier to appear ordinary online (I hesitate to say normal) 

My closest friends have been very understanding since my diagnosis, and now understand why I cancel attending social events at the last minute. In truth I never know if I can handle it until I wake up on the day and a switch has been flicked in my head that says either yes or no (as a result of severe anxiety and depression)

Im also on antidepressants (escitalopram) which I hope to get off soon, the trigger being the NHS announcing a link to heart problems. As The Verve once sang, the drugs don't work..

I can relate to the broader points your post makes, even if I can't relate specifically. 

You also remind me of one of the few close friends I have. I'm somewhat certain you aren't that close friend, but the similarities between you are scarey to the point that you may actually be that close friend 

I don't know if this will come across as crass, I am married with children and have Asperger's so I haven't had the opportunity to feel lonely for company for a long time now (although was very isolated at periods in younger years) although I am lonely in the way you can be in a crowd from not connecting in the right way with who is around you.

I am seeking answers from every angle, I love research and just reading up on things generally.  I have just discovered an ASC author who has written the following books and I think realising there is something very special about autism could help people feel less isolated and more worthwhile:

• Autism & The God Connection
• The Soul of Autism
• The Autism Prophecies

All by William Stillman, a man with AS (I think he's written others too).  I'm not religious per se BTW, but if you are even remotely interested in anything spiritual (as in being a good person) or autism being a possible evolutionary development, or just reading up on different aspects of things, you should give these books a try.  Sometimes you can change your philosophy in life.

A lot of the lonely feeling I used to have was because I felt there was "something wrong with me" because I didn't have "dating relationships" but gradually, with the help of a therapist, I have got rid of that view. It took a while because you have it pushed in your face everywhere.  I also used to want my friends to fully understand me but it is suffiecient that they accept me as I am.  I have a few close friends that don't live that close and I only see about once a month at best but I am happy on my own the rest of the time. I don't watch television - another source of social pressure to conform to a particular view of what being a person is. There are other people like you if that is any comfort.

I feel more isolated and like I'm actually getting worse as I get older. I think I feel things are worse because i don't have many friends and non in the area I'm living now but those I have are in long term relationships or married, and many of them have decent jobs where they're moving up and doing well and I just stay the same, nothing ever changes with my life, in some ways I like it, because it's how I want it but i feel so different and alone. I think it's also harder because as I get older I can't get away with the excuse of not understanding things due to being young and naive anymore.

I was taking to a Chef at work the other day about some of the issues I have because they're all trying to find boyfriends online and I haven't joined in. So I explained how bad I am at texting and only check my phone every other day, I'm terrified of ringing people and struggle with conversation. so she thinks I'd be hilarious in the pub after I explained that I answer questions factually and have no idea what I'm actually suppose to say and I tend to take things literally. She wants to teach me how to banter, but I don't think I'd ever get the hang of it and to be honest I'm not interesting in it either, but I'm afraid that this gap between myself and the world is getting wider and I'm going to be alone forever because of it.

Glad that your CBT worked out.

For me it wasn't any use in the end. The practitioner didn't have any insight into Aspergers and there seemed little structure to the sessions. 

....not such an important point but it was it was in your post that you said you were 'cautiously optimistic'.... my fualt probably for adding to older posts and creating the mixup.....:)

.....although I was definately cautiously optimistic too ;)

NAS11521 said:

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Anyway, it seems that this is all that's on offer so it it makes sense to at least try it.    

 

That was my thought too - it would be wrong not to try it. I would be interested to know how you get on.

At the moment I'm cautiously optimistic.  I'll let you know how  things develop.  I don't  think it would work at all with me if the therapist had little or no knowledge of AS and I'm probably fortunate if having been assigned to someone who does.

...have had quite a spell away from the forum....how did you get on?

Goatworshiper said:

I'd love to be able to paint. 

...why can't you?

Silver100 said:

www.coursera.org/courses

Another point I would like to make is the brain more heavily weights negative experience in memory than positive, because negative may be life threatening.  So I think it is worth trying to notice any positive aspects of being alive, however small, and give them a boost.  I also avoid the news most of the time.  

Coursera sounds interesting.

Thats interesting about the brain and negative experience. So many things seem to be rooted in the primal  - often being quite outdated but still fully functioning and controling our lives.

NAS11521 said:

Anyway, it seems that this is all that's on offer so it it makes sense to at least try it.    

 

That was my thought too - it would be wrong not to try it. I would be interested to know how you get on.

CBT can help a bit, but overall, the specialist support I receive from my local Autism charity has been far better. But unfortunately many people with AS cannot access this support due to funding and post-code lotteries.

yep, there is no such other support in my area.

I also find myself in scenarios at work when I wish people would just shut up. They're talking and I feel no connection to what they're saying, this is small talk. I think this doesnt help me get along with others as I find small talk so tedious.

Im also not sure wether age is isolating in a strange way because of people/NT's having children. I don't relate to the family stuff very well, I'm still in a world were persuing hobies and reading is very important. 

I find trades-peoples patter/craic/humor terrible. When I first left school I done an apprenticeship and being around these type of people was horrible. 

longman said:

Regarding the above points about inspiration to be creative, I've always reckoned that not finding stimulus is a manifestation of depression. If I need to get started on a project I need to get "up beat" about it first.

You could well be right on this point. I'm quite good at getting on with things, but getting started on any project as always been a problem. I have lot's to say but I'm not so good at articulating it. I always like to have structure when doing things too.

I'd love to be able to paint. 

I think that is the longest post I have ever made

Since I turned 50 (six years ago) I have started to feel less isolated though I probably have less contact with people than I ever had.  I think one of the worst periods for feeling isolated (apart from school years) was in my 30s when I felt I had to be like other people and not having a “relationship” meant there was “something wrong with me”.   I am fortunate in having three friends, but when I was younger I used to get jealous of other people’s relationships with them and felt I was “less important”. I don’t feel like that now. I feel glad I have any friends and appreciate the time I have with them.  I also have a therapist I pay for support once a fortnight.  I started this (over 10 years ago) when I was in a position where I would be at least a week without exchanging any words with anyone, and two or three weeks for more than the checkout at the supermarket. I just needed someone to talk to about my daily life. Don’t give up hope for a happier future.

I have also found some “academics and wealthier people” very irritating for their arrogance and sometimes right wing views. It is ignorance. The difficulties and struggles that some people have are so far outside the experience of these students that these issues are beyond their imagination. When I worked in a Uni. I resented the confidence these middle-class students exuded, but many of them are not as clever as they think they are.  They have been brought up to think they can have anything they want, but they can’t, so they are heading for disappointment.

It does sound like you need a new interest. In the past few months I have done two courses with ‘coursera’ (which I found out about from this site – thank you). These are free short (6-12 weeks) online courses from usually American Universities. There is an increasing range of subjects and the pre-requisits vary from none to some degree level knowledge. The last one I did needed 1st year undergraduate maths. I found I needed quite a lot more time than they had suggested would be enough so bare that in mind if you have a go.  If you decide you don’t like it, or you don’t have enough time, you are not penalised for giving it up.  I liked the forums as other students are very helpful. It is a very global community.  The other thing I like is having lectures on video because you can stop or pause or repeat.  The two courses were different in methods of assessment the first required either videos that people had to post on youtube or some other platform, or producing a document with text and images which was submitted directly.  We assessed each others work according to a provided rubric. The later course set problems requiring thought or programming (they held our hands with that) and there were either a multiple choice questions or ‘enter a number in a box’ – all of it marked by computer.  As their focus is learning, rather scoring points, you can repeat tests if you have some answers incorrect if you want to. There are also some that require discussion over the internet. It helped me to feel a bit more connected and I enjoyed learning things I didn’t know and solving problems.  I also liked a weekly deadline. See if there is anything that appeals to you.

www.coursera.org/courses

Another point I would like to make is the brain more heavily weights negative experience in memory than positive, because negative may be life threatening.  So I think it is worth trying to notice any positive aspects of being alive, however small, and give them a boost.  I also avoid the news most of the time.  It doesn’t mean I don’t care, but there is rarely much we can do about it. Knowing which variety of “people suffering, often at the hands of others” doesn’t help them and has a depressing effect on the listener, often without awareness.  We have some responsibility for taking what control we can for what our brains take in.

I have had two courses of CBT so far, and am on my 3rd course.

CBT can help a bit, but overall, the specialist support I receive from my local Autism charity has been far better. But unfortunately many people with AS cannot access this support due to funding and post-code lotteries.

NAS11521 said:

I recently started a course of CBT and to date I've had three sessions.  The therapist seems knowledgeable about autism/AS but I feel there's a "black hole" between the way each of us sees/experiences things which makes it difficult for the therapy to be effective.

One thing that i found difficult with CBT was that I didn't know exactly what I was trying to achieve. I hope you don't mind me asking but what are you trying to achieve with CBT?

longman said:

Regarding the above points about inspiration to be creative, I've always reckoned that not finding stimulus is a manifestation of depression. If I need to get started on a project I need to get "up beat" about it first.

It can be quite a downward spiral. Input in some form is vital for inspiration and that can be quite absent in my life if you are isolated. I think that people with AS can self motivate as good (and maybe better) than anyone but there still nedds to be new input. Without the internet I would be struggling so much more. 

Not knowing neighbours well it is difficult to get advice about tradesmen, and I do have great difficulty reading the way tradesmen speak to me during a job, so getting reliable tradesmen is crucial.

I can relate to the tradesperson problem. It is even more difficult if you don't know if you can trust the person. This is where some form of help for AS people could be useful - better than CBT or anti-depressants. I feel very vulnerable in such situations. It is so hard to read the person and to even act casual - I just want them to leave. If everything is straightforward then thats one thing but if the price changes or the work becomes more complicated then things get very bad.

Scorpion0x17 said:

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It would, however, in some ways be interesting to see if a dr thought I was depressed. Probably not but I would be intrigued on an intellctual platform to see what the professionals come up with.

The NHS in my area (and probably in general) has two responses to depression or suspected depression - CBT or an anti-depressants. The anti-depresants are given on the assumption that a seretonin issue is the cause and not anything else such as dopamine or circumstancial factors. In my experience the CBT is aimed at NT ways of thinking and proved pointless and frustrating.

On the topic of CBT, it's my understanding that CBT can be effective in treating depression in people on the spectrum, but the practitioner has to be trained in treating those on the spectrum as the therapy has to be tailored to better suit the way we, as individuals, think and see the world.

I hear this alot Scorpion and I am inclined to agree. In my personal experience and on hearing that of others there seem to be few CBT practitioners who have AS experience or the inclination to be flexible.

I think a more cost effective and succesful approach would be AS therapy with an emphasis on practical support and change. This could include CBT but it would not be the defining aspect of the service.

I wonder how many people on this forum have had positive experiences with CBT?

The main problem I've had with isolation is there are times when you neded the help of others.

I don't have a car. Some local authority services like special rubbish removal are very limited. I would have great difficulty asking someone to help me take stuff to the authorised dump, usually too remote from public transport.

Not knowing neighbours well it is difficult to get advice about tradesmen, and I do have great difficulty reading the way tradesmen speak to me during a job, so getting reliable tradesmen is crucial.

Four years ago I was confined to the house for long periods during chemotherapy but there wasn't anyone around I felt I could get to help me with shopping etc. Whatever the adverts say, I didn't seem to qualify for that kind of help from MacMillan nurses. So I ended up doing necessary things I shouldn't have been doing myself. I've always had to lie, when leaving hospital after treatment, that there's someone there to look after me.

I've recently moved to be nearer family who could help, but it still underlines the problem of generally being isolated.

Regarding the above points about inspiration to be creative, I've always reckoned that not finding stimulus is a manifestation of depression. If I need to get started on a project I need to get "up beat" about it first.

Jon said:

[quote][/quote]

It would, however, in some ways be interesting to see if a dr thought I was depressed. Probably not but I would be intrigued on an intellctual platform to see what the professionals come up with.

The NHS in my area (and probably in general) has two responses to depression or suspected depression - CBT or an anti-depressants. The anti-depresants are given on the assumption that a seretonin issue is the cause and not anything else such as dopamine or circumstancial factors. In my experience the CBT is aimed at NT ways of thinking and proved pointless and frustrating.

On the topic of CBT, it's my understanding that CBT can be effective in treating depression in people on the spectrum, but the practitioner has to be trained in treating those on the spectrum as the therapy has to be tailored to better suit the way we, as individuals, think and see the world.