Asperger's Syndrome and MDMA

I was wondering what peoples thoughts regarding MDMA use and Asperger's Syndrome. I appreciate that this is probably a little controversial. I also appreciate that nobody on this forum would actually have taken MDMA because that would be illegal. However they may know a 'friend of a friend' who has or has read something about the subject.

A quick search on the internet came up with this:

Danforth Research Project

The study intended to explore Adult Autism and MDMA use. The results do not appear to have been published yet. More information about the researcher can be found here.

I also found a request for another research proposal here.

I am unsure that I agree with 'medication' to 'treat' Asperger's'. However I am very interested in understanding Asperger's beyond the 'traits'.

Understanding, acceptance and appreciation of peoples differences is what I see as a positive way forwards.

  • On canabis, yes this drug can be effective both in promoting social activity in aspies and in "meltdown" avoidance/recovery but only strains rich in CBD. THC heavy strains generate a counter productive paranoia effect...

  • I obviously can't comment on MDMA personally, though I agree with Supercoley1, it does bring one out of ones shell and makes a usually horrid experience a lot more pleasant indeed!

    I will comment on Cannabis from personal experience though, if no-one here minds that is.. I've suffered Aspergers, anxiety, depression, including self-harm and suicidal thoughts/acts since my teens. As with any medication it suits some people but not others; until it's legalised in the UK as it is in much of the US now, it's expensive and sometimes difficult to get hold of. I find it invaluable as it almost completely alleviates anxiety/depression and, similarly to MDMA, makes socialising with Aspergers far more palatable.

    I've found techniques in my quest for understanding that, with practice, usually allow me a fair amount of concious control of anxiety/depression during the day, then I can medicate with cannabis in the evening; during low periods I medicate lightly during the day too.

    Without this I believe I would not be here now!

  • I agree that there could be different motivational factors for why people with and without Aspergers take drugs/alcohol.

    Another reason why someone might take a substance would be to try and 'fit in' or be accepted.

    People with AS probably take substances to relieve stress and anxiety but I suppose some Nt's do also.

    Taking MDMA and alcohol can definately makes social interaction easier. An NT might be able to build on these experiences to further a relationship when not using the substance.

    In my personal experience this is not really the case for someone with Aspergers - after the effects of the substance wears off there is panic and great difficulty with any social conections that were made. The idea of trying to sustain the social connections that were made is too much. Seeing people you met when under the influence of a substance is terrifying. Depression, anxiety and increased social withdrawal follows.

  • Hi Jon,

    No, I was just pointing out that, as someone with Asperger's, I personally have never felt the need to take drugs. However, I know that many people with Asperger's do abuse these sustances, but I am not sure how many do statistically.

    Maybe the reasons for taking these substances tend to be different for people with Asperger's than for those who do not have AS. People with AS might take them more to relieve anxiety and stress than because it looks 'cool'.

  • Hope said:

    Thankfully as an individual with asperger's, I have never felt the need to take drugs, smoke, or abuse alcohol. 

    Hi Hope, what do you mean by 'Thankfully as an individual with Asopergers'? Are you saying that it is the norm for people with Aspergers not to take drugs, smoke or abuse alcohol?

    'take' drugs but 'abuse' alcohol - thats an interesting distinction.

  • Thankfully as an individual with asperger's, I have never felt the need to take drugs, smoke, or abuse alcohol.  I am very risk averse and would never put my health at risk. In fact, I am so risk averse that I would not even consider taking prozac for my anxiety.

    I use the 'safe' drug tea to self-medicate, which I prefer to coffee.

    However, I know an individual with asperger's who abused alcohol for years before he finally got a diagnosis, but he is now alcohol free.

  • A cautionary tale!

    At the risk of sounding as though I'm preaching, think carefully about such considerations.

    My sons best friend died from the use of MDMA as recently as 2010. She was an independent and strong minded person who; for whatever reason, felt on the outside of things and desperate to be accepted. For that reason she got mixed in with the wrong crowd, who in the end abandoned her when she began to show signs of distress and was clearly unwell whilst under the influence.

    As far as I know she was not on the spectrum, but the potency and danger of such drugs in this day and age and the cocktail of drugs now taken with MDMA to heighten and prolong the effects, cannot be underestimated.

    My son who is on the spectrum, tried in vain to get others to help her, but nobody would listen. It cost this beautiful teenage girl her life and destroyed my son with grief so deep he was left suicidal himself, having lost someone he loved so dearly.

    Healthy debate about such drugs is important, but so too is the balanced view of what can happen in a search for belonging or in a bid to turn down the volume of anxiety levels of those on the spectrum. 

    My experience; myself included, is that the propensity to try such drugs, be it alcohol, cigarettes, weed or prescription/non-prescription medication is much higher in those on the spectrum. Anxiety levels can be crippling and the need to self-medicate with whatever that persons drug of choice may be, can be easily increased, either in a bid to be more accepted or to reduce the anxiety that plagues our everyday lives when unsupported or in times of great stress.

    In moderation this can be perceived as a benefit by the user, however, dependency for some (Not All) can be very damaging and I’ve known my fair share of people that have gone to excess, through lack of adequate support.

    It is no accident that drug and alcohol issues are discussed as part of the condition in sections illustrated on the NAS site and indeed my own family; who have a strong history of Aspergers, have suffered greatly with addiction to both and at considerable cost to other family members and their friends.

    It is my belief that greater acceptance and support by Doctors, families and society in general is the key to the reduction in the need ‘to resort to’ or ‘become dependent on’ such crutches and that until such support is forthcoming, many will continue to seek whatever they need in order to cope with life’s challenges.

    You will not prevent any individual experimenting with or taking MDMA. Be they NT or Aspie. But they need to be fully aware of the risks and those who are younger can be particularly vulnerable.

    Are all on the spectrum faced with such dilemmas? Probably not.

    Is excess or moderate drug & alcohol consumption restricted to those on the spectrum? Absolutely not.

    However, (and I can only speak from my own personal experiences) awareness of the potential, for a greater propensity of use or reliance by those on the spectrum is 'key.' And genuine support and acceptance of difference 'essential' in negotiating the pathway that is a life with ASD, if use, abuse or dependence is to be lessened.

    If such drugs have become even more dangerous over the years, then surely more lives can be saved with greater awareness.

  • I registered when I stumbled upon this thread through a google search prompted by trying to piece together things from my past.

    I am 38 and was only diagnosed with Aspergers early this year.

    I took ecstacy on and off back in the early nineties when I was in my late teens through to my mid twenties.  Of course back then I didn't know anything about autism or the spectrum and just wished I wasn't as shy, anti social, would easily annoy people without knowing why etc.

    Now I should add I didn't take ecstacy as a 'cure' from what I now know were Aspie traits.  I took it because all of my smallish circle of 65 or so friends who were older than me had now properly paired off and so I felt alone 'again'.

    I wanted to go out and enjoy myself.  I was after all at that age of partying however I had no social skills so I found it very very hard to find an outlet for my social needs.  Of course the easiest way was to go out with people from work that were around the same age but they weren't into my music (rock / metal) they were all into trance and the rave culture.

    Es came into the conversation and I wasn't against trying so I did.

    Now I cannot say I ever felt the 'love' or 'togetherness' that many 'Aspies' claim they felt.  Nor will I say I felt like an NT.  I didn't know I wasn't NT and even now looking back I couldn't tell you if I felt like an NT felt.

    What I can say though is that even back then if I had been in a club that wasn't a metal club I would quickly get bored and leave within an hour.  Also these sort of nights turned into 'back to someone's house' nights where people just stayed awake with the dance music still going and playing the PS(1) all night long.

    If I had been sober I would've got bored with this inane behaviour and all the talk about 'nothing' and the trance music.  I would've been ringing for a taxi.  On Ecstacy I was quite happy sitting and watching, listening, tapping my foot to the beat.  I wasn't the life and soul of the party, I didn't feel the need to hug anyone or talk non stop.  I just felt comfortable where I would normally feel bored and uneasy.  I felt happy where I would normally be getting angrier.  I felt that I could interact and enjoy people rather than wish they would go away (or talk about my subject.)

    Just thought I would add my 2p in there.

    The biggie:

    Am I saying Extacy is the wonder drug for autism?

    No, I don't know how others on different parts of the spectrum feel on it.  It was beneficial for me though.

    Am I suggesting go and buy some?

    No Way.  Back when I took it it was still relatively pure and pretty strong and I would only use it occasionally.  These days there are some very vyer dangerous things being palmed off as exctacy that are 1000% times more dangerous.

  • Jon said:

    OK Scorpion, I mssed seeing that link. I must watch it. I wonder how easy it was for them to get authorisation.

    From what they said in the programme, it sounds like it was fairly easy. It was just getting the funding that was the problem.

    Jon said:
    At 83mg I think that it would be pretty clear if it was a placebo or not. The environmet looks a little clinical.

    Yeah, it's next to impossible to do a true double-blind study with something like MDMA where both the participant and the doctors/scientists can clearly tell whether they're on it or not.

    However, I suspect that the results were effectively 'blinded' before being collated.

    Also, the environment was deliberately clinical - it was a scientific trial, after all, not a theraputic session.

    And that point is brought up in the second programme to some degree.

  • OK Scorpion, I mssed seeing that link. I must watch it. I wonder how easy it was for them to get authorisation.

    At 83mg I think that it would be pretty clear if it was a placebo or not. The environmet looks a little clinical.

  • Jon said:
    the research for MDMA/PTSD are in the states.

    Any research would be difficult owing to it legal (illegal) status.

    Not entirely true. See the Channel 4 programme Spektral linked to...

  • zone_tripper,

    the research for MDMA/PTSD are in the states.

    Any research would be difficult owing to it legal (illegal) status.

    ....and its a whole other debate whether it should be illegal......

  • A word of warning, though:

    MDMA is more commonly known as Ecstacy.  

    Rightly or wrongly, MDMA aka Ecstacy is currently classified as a Class A drug in the UK and it is a criminal offence to possess, use, sell, possess with intent to sell, etc.  

    www.talktofrank.com/.../ecstasy

    Unless legitimiately prescribed by a medical professional and used under strict medical guidance by the person it has been prescribed to, it's usage is a criminal offence.  (Indeed, with the possible exception of Home Office licensed medical trials, it may be even illegal for genuine medical usage, for all I know; and may somebody correct me if I am wrong.)  

  • spektral said:

     I beleive they have been testing it on people that are suffering from PTSD such as soldiers  and accident victims. 

    yep, I have heard this too.

  • I totally agree Scorpion0x17. Most of the common knownledge about drugs is false. Recent research about MDMA has shown that it is incredibly benificial in psychotherapy, I beleive they have been testing it on people that are suffering from PTSD such as soldiers  and accident victims. 

    You should watch this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=54xWo7ITFbg Its a film called Reefer Madness. It is from the 1930s and was an educational film teaching the menace of cannabis. Acording to the film, everyone is some kind of psychotic crack head, which even the most uneducated poeple know now is complete lies. 

    Channel 4 did a live program testing MDMA, discussing its effects and benifits http://www.channel4.com/programmes/drugs-live-the-ecstasy-trial/4od

    All i can say about it is, it helps.

  • Silver100 said:

    I am glad about that. From what little I have heard of MDMA is can cause brain damage so I think it beast avoided.

    If that were true there would literally be millions of brain damaged adults living in this country.

    That's because millions of adults living in this country have used, and do use, MDMA on regular basis for, in some cases, many years.

    There is actually very little good evidence that moderate MDMA use causes any long term changes to the brain.

  • I wonder what sort of 'damage' it would do to the brain. I have my reservations regarding SSRI's. It always seems the case that there never is enough solid understanding of the effects and side effects of the drug. And most importantly not enough understanding of the 'condition' being treated.

  • I am glad about that. From what little I have heard of MDMA is can cause brain damage so I think it beast avoided.

  • After watching the video presentation I am reasured that the researcher, Alicia Danforth, is not interested in treating Autism with MDMA. Smile

    Does nonody have any views on this subject?