On The Ontological Status Of Autism And Double Empathy

Deepthought said:

Milton does not suggest that non-autistic people are less capable of developing an understanding of autism than vice versa; as he points out, it is simply that autistic people have no choice but to try to develop an understanding of society if they are to ‘survive and potentially thrive’ whereas no such imperative applies in the opposite direction (Milton 2012).

The thing that makes me smile here, is Milton's and other's hypothesis that there is no imperative for non-autistic people to use an Autistic Theory-of-Mind (or AToM) ~ with my amusement arising from the fact that non-autistic and autistic parents have been having and raising autistic children for thousands of years now, and the use of an AToM or a Divergent Theory of Mind (DToM) has remained historically concurrent in all cultures and societies, therefore.

Also, societal ToM models that involve 'surviving and potentially thriving' ideologies featuring 'imperatives' are proving currently to be more and more unreliable, whereas when we live as we actually are ~ we thereby facilitate our life as it actually is in the dependable and reliable sense.

. said:

Don’t you find it a very blunt instrument of judgement though?

If judgement is employed the blunt instrument factor can very much become the case, yes. How do you imagine its application to be like a blunt instrument in the above respect?

. said:

Does it register with you.. ?... the underlined bit?

Register it does, yes. And recalling the following:

Deepthought said:

Autistic people are more self-centric (internally centred) and their genetic and linguistic architectures are more functionally specialised, and concretely receptive.

In terms of a person with autism being then Self-centric, or internally centred, the Self is our conscious vitality, and the internal centring of which makes the linguistic and genetic architectures of our sensibilities more externally vitalised, and sensitised.

Hyper-sensitivity and also hypo-sensitivity issues are not uncommon in ASD.

. said:

Do you sleep DeepThought?

and so myself and the argument also rotates on its own centred axis! Lol

Sleep? Getting dictionary out, and ruffling through pages . . .

'Well' not as deeply nor as often as I would like to ~ what with the old bucket of wakefulness and the not so novel insomniac wall of death together getting on occasion 'well' boring, although ~ they do bring up some archaeological curios from the subconscious and unconscious depths of the burgeoning deep.

Basically I refer to myself as being a 'night-shifter' or 'night-owl' ~ as I am hyper-sensitive to light and have synaesthesia which makes sunlight rather loud, and the lazy or weak sunshine of the early morning allows me to sleep, doze or at least rest until mid afternoon sometimes.

http://the-art-of-autism.com/females-and-aspergers-a-checklist/

. said:

now...here is a question.....write me a NT checklist! Lol 

I have actually seen quite a few in my time, but as a summary:

Neurotypical syndrome is a neurobiological disorder characterized by preoccupation with social concerns, delusions of superiority, and obsession with conformity. There is no known cure.  (Laura Tisoncik 1998)

From: http://wrongplanet.net/dawn-autistic-space-exclusive-excerpt-neurotribes/

. said:

So....the checklist is very comprehensive

Yup, it certainly is that.

. said:

...I shall print numerous copies and give it to my Christmas visitors...

If you or your Christmas visitors would like the softer and friendlier looking print version, with pictures and introduction too:

https://everydayaspie.wordpress.com/2016/05/02/females-with-aspergers-syndrome-checklist-by-samantha-craft/

. said:

I am self diagnosed as ....?

As an Elephant in the room ~ surely? ;-)

. said:

.... but this makes a lot of sense....

Pretty much a clarification guaranteed affair, really.

. said:

Lol....delusions of superiority indeed!!...

Yeah, I nearly fell off the floor laughing when I read it.

Limbic sublimation therapy through laughter really helps shift delusions of superiority ~ as are but one range of presentations involving ''Inferiority Complex'' proper, what with delusions of mediocrity and inferiority being the other two ranges of presentation, just as much integrally.

The thing that made me laugh the most though ~ There is no known cure. I mean a cure for individuality ~ oh my whole life on this planet that makes me laugh. 

. said:

thank you for offering a “pretty” version of the women with ASD checklist....is that to make it more palatable!   

Oh its got little to do with making it more 'palatable' ~ emotional (think of the sweet looking Aspie child) bribery all the way! 

. said:

Lol....delusions of superiority indeed!!...

Yeah, I nearly fell off the floor laughing when I read it.

Limbic sublimation therapy through laughter really helps shift delusions of superiority ~ as are but one range of presentations involving ''Inferiority Complex'' proper, what with delusions of mediocrity and inferiority being the other two ranges of presentation, just as much integrally.

The thing that made me laugh the most though ~ There is no known cure. I mean a cure for individuality ~ oh my whole life on this planet that makes me laugh. 

. said:

thank you for offering a “pretty” version of the women with ASD checklist....is that to make it more palatable!   

Oh its got little to do with making it more 'palatable' ~ emotional (think of the sweet looking Aspie child) bribery all the way! 

. said:

Would not even labotonmisation cure individualism?

Nope, not even a lobotomy, for by removing or damaging parts of the brain, only autonomous functioning is restricted, and autonomous experience and awareness remains constant ~ from four and half months gestation time, until the last breath.

. said:

Does the swamp of media fed, consumerism fed NT folk still class as “individuals”.

I would state that all the 'swathes' of media and consumerism led NT folk are always individuals, whether they be individuals singularly alone, or individuals collectively together.

It matters not what has been taken from the brain or put into the mind of an individual, it is still the brain and mind of an individual in each and every case experientially for them, as also being as we are equals.

. said:

....or even our herd mentality to scuttle under rocks and not be recognised as of worth negate scope for individualisation.

Well herd mentality supports or restricts scope for individualisation, more in some cases and less in others, yet it is still in each and every case that an individual is as such being socially supported or restricted.

. said:

....in a society that only just muster the effort to generalise...(yes, I ate my own words),..we are yet to celebrate individualism...too scared to, so just conform....instead....

As far as stating that we do not as a society celebrate individualism, the greater and the lesser majority of people do celebrate a 'collectively' shared and enforced 'ideal' of what individualism is assumed to be, in societal-behavioural terms. 

What individuality actually is though ~ is not all that well considered by many, as they are traumatically disassociated from themselves, and thereby habitually pretending to be who they imagine they are, who they'd like to be, or who they are not.

Oddly enough, most people do not really like this state of affairs, in that, "Everybody has to do it and so must you do it too!" way of things. All big and jolly, "It's tradition you know!" or all big and not jolly. "Or else!!!"

Pretending to be who we are or who we or others think we should be, becomes rather a strain through the course of life for each neurological type, and psychological issues ensue from preadolescent to post adolescent life stage crisisies, breakdowns and so on into the realms of insanity, senility and so fourth.

This collective psychological wounding and maiming will improve with a lot less of the "Or else!!!" phobia inducing behavioural imperative involved, which to a small extent is beneficial, yet much more so is a greater recollection that defaming and humiliating people because of age, gender and culture is excessively costly and damaging.

When more people learn to internally recycle their emotional turmoil instead of externally redirecting it at other people ~ that will be breath of fresh air, and in terms of being autistic or 'self-centric' ~ we are more predisposed to it just as non-autistic people are more predisposed to socialising.

I hope soon to come is a more generalised sense that there are different types of empathy for each neurological type, and just as is the case with different languages ~ some people comprehend more and others less. I hope also that those who have yet to learn are cherished equally as much as those who have learnt ~ all being equal.

Deepthought said:

What individuality actually is though ~ is not all that well considered by many, as they are traumatically disassociated from themselves, and thereby habitually pretending to be who they imagine they are, who they'd like to be, or who they are not.

Oddly enough, most people do not really like this state of affairs, in that, "Everybody has to do it and so must you do it too!" way of things. All big and jolly, "It's tradition you know!" or all big and not jolly. "Or else!!!"

So a degree of individualisation is tolerated, i suppose, as long as you can still perform in the world and adhere to societal homogeneity.  In some ways people like this it is gives them a "rule book" in terms of the key elements to conform to and leaves spaces in between for us to add our own sprinkle of uniqueness (provided that it does not upset anyone) and provided that we still remain "useful" members of society.

However, as you allude, some people are disassociated from themselves...traumatically or maybe down to the "rules of engagement" from their particular culture.  Some people may believe that they are individual but are just practicing mimicry.

Fashion, for example, provides mass produced costumes for us to wear and this are external indicators of wealth and compliance....external badges of what "camp" or tribe we belong to - i.e. Goth, Hippie, Punk, Skinhead...and then customise these again with a layer of our individuality....a tattoo, a safety pin etc.

no wonder people just worn out trying to understand others!! :)