Hi! Please have a read and give me your thoughts or advice :-)

I first want to thank you all for the support, good feelings, love and respect I am receiving. Its really nice to feel supported by you guys especially when I have felt so hopeless for so long.

Couple of answers and a couple of points.

Both myself and my partner work full time and its very difficult for us to take time off. Most parenting classes run during the working week and not of a weekend. Its very upsetting when you phone to arrange a parenting class to be told "There is nothing we can do for you if you are unwilling to come to the schedualed classes" - We are NOT unwilling.... but being on a low income in jobs that specify "IF you dont work you dont get paid"... its kind of tough to loose a days wage....... when they could arrange a class on a saturday!

We have began to parent our son as if he HAS got Austism, lots of calm assertive tones, wall charts, flow charts  - Sticking to rountine as much as possible ect - we still have to keep doors locked and he has to be with one of us at all times.... its early days so hopefully there will be an inprovement in day to day life.

The issue we had with the dead pet:

Milo was a rabbit, only a baby about 7 months old. Rabbits are prey animals and we think that the fireworks last year(although they live in the kitchen in the winter) scared him and he had a heart attack.

We did not initally tell the children as we found him in the morning and the children had to go to school. My son was told when we got home from school. We had to leave the rabbit out in a box on the landing outside (it was very cold).

I gently explained to my son that I had some sad news and told him that this morning we found milo had died.

First thing that my son did was burst into tears. This didnt last long and he was more interested in seeing milo

J helped me get milo out of the box and held him and kissed him, and then wrap him in a blanket (so he wouldnt get cold ) and in an old pillow case.

We then went inside and drew a happy goodbye picture - J's was a picture of our family with Milo flying in the sky in rabbit heaven.

When his dad got home, he dug a hold in the back garden, quiet, out of the way where the children do not noramally play and we took the children down (j carried milo) and we held a funeral. It was very sad and both children did cry.

For several days after we encouraged the children to discuss milo and their feelings on the subject.

I think we handled this situation very well.

about 2 weeks later - my female rabbit gave birth to 4 kits - all of whom died. We did not tell the children about this and I burried them with their father.

My son went into the garden alone at some point about 6 weeks ago and dug up all the animals. I did not know this till 2 days later and it was my partner that noticed it - he found the teatowl the kits where wrapped in  lying in the middle of the grass.  - now..... was it a fox? no..... when we buried them we put a large plank of wood with bricks on top to stop any foxes.

We asked my son what had happened and he denied it initially, but then told the truth.

We where shocked and upset, but he showed no emotion and couldnt understand why we where so upset with him. When asked why he throught that was ok, he just said "I wanted to see milo" - I asked him if he understood what death was and what would happpen to milos body when we buried him and he said yes.

- 2 points to this - this is not the first thing that he has done that has shocked me:

1 - Rubbing his hands in someone elses vomit - when told (in a group) not to go near it.

2) getting dog poo from under a fence and wiping it all in the mens toilet

3) facination with water - happily go into resturant toilets and spray himself with the water (turning taps on full and putting thumbs underneath.

All these things i think suggest 1) lack of emotions - or a lack of understanding when it comes to other peoples emotions and why we reacted the way that we did.

2) a facination with anything liquid oor things that are soft and can be smeared - water especially (my boy can have a shower - be in there for 15 minutes and just dance excitedly in the water.... and forget about washing himself, or stand at the sink with his hands submerged in water, shaking with excitement and just staring at his hands)

I want to know where I would go to get my son assessed for Austism and Aspergers - Can any of you guys help?

Ps

Please dont fight! I have love and respect for you all and all of your opinions

xx

YF,

I'm sorry if I come across badly. I wasn't meaning to wind you up or argue with you. I have Asperger's so I tend to mis interpret the impact of what I say quite frequently. That's meant as an explanation rather than an excuse by the way.

Sorry

Bit patronising/belittleing. Am qualified in pet bereavement support work and have a friend with a child, with aspergers, no two are the same, so it's just speculation, how any child should feel. How they think.  And behave re-pet bereavement, or any other subject.

This discussion, has gone off on a tanjent for the lady with the problems stated above now. So best this topic, sticks to how her child can be helped, rather than it going off on the jeuaditial herracy on pet bereavement and an argument on who's right and who's wrong.

Anyway, am leaving the forum now for a long while, because it's just the same as before, lots of people arguing on who's more knowledgeable/who's right or wrong-their is no one set answer to a particular problem. Their is no one set advice. bye

Yes, but also a pet is a best friend for most kids. I suspect that some ASD kids (not sure how common this would be) would treat the pet as a 'thing' with no more emotional attachment than a bicycle or a model car. The death, in this case, has much less significance and the body is just like a clock that has stopped or a computer that has been turned off.

That is true.

Re- The disgust part- if the parent told the autistic child off for digging it up,  and displayed  disgust at the animal, then how will the child/children learn about pet bereavement? The child will associate the pet, as disgust, not as a cherished pet. Doing things like creating a scrap book of cherished memories of the deceased pet will help.

Yes, it is  squeemish, but the body needs treating wth respect again and a new funeral- good chance to involve the autistic child, and any other sibilings, and so they understand more- it's good to explain, that 'scruffy', for example, has died. He was very old/sick/was involved in an accident, and when that happens, their body shuts down is no longer working-excellent pet bereavement books for children are available online( just incase).

And explain that we need to leave 'scruffy' for example, in the ground, because he has died.

If the child need's teaching about disgust, then it is  perhaps ,more advisable, to teach them about the 'poo scenario' and explain disgust there to them. But this is just advice, it doesn't have to be taken.

yellow sunflower said:

Re- digging up deceased pets, it sounds like he is actually an intelligent boy, and that he is paying an interest in things/ how things work- not because it is unusual behaviour

This is unusual behaviour for non-ASD kids but it's not the first time of heard/read of ASD kids doing this.

Yes, it shows an interest in how things work

But, it shows that he hasn't learnt disgust at dead and buried animals. Normally I expect that this disgust may be acquired by learning from the other members of family or parents.

Also, it shows a lack of empathy for the deceased loved one. Most kids would be emotionally distraught at the loss of a pet but I guess that an ASD kid might not see it that way.

Hi,

It may sound like he also has attention deffieicte hyperactivity dissorder, often goes hand in hand with aspergers or autism.  Re- digging up deceased pets, it sounds like he is actually an intelligent boy, and that he is paying an interest in things/ how things work- not because it is unusual behaviour- so i wouldn't worry to much about that.

I'd also listen to the other posts above, because am not too knowledgeable about the other stuff. I think however, changing to a g.p that is empathetic would help

I was thinking about you yesterday evening and am concerned that you seem to be nearing family break down with your son. Believe me, I have been there and although this isn't your fault, only you and your husband can break the cycle.

Diagnosis or no diagnosis you know that your child has enormous challenges and that they impact on you and the rest of the family. With a child with autism (and lets assume he does have it)  it really helps if you can turn your ideas about parenting on their head and start to think and react differently. Yes an autistic child can be wilful and badly behaved but if your understanding of the world is skewed its not surprising that you can't conform to what other people see as 'normal' behaviour. I decided long ago that the only way I was going to survive all this was to divert my anger at the autism not at my grandson. Getting angry at him, punishing him, raising your voice, becoming overly stressed yourself won't help or encourage your son to do what you want. Its like asking a child with legs that wont carry them to get up and walk. We have gained an acceptance about the ASD now..even though i think its a  cruel condition, and we accept that the behaviours our grandson shows are part of it so while we are trying to teach him to recognize certain situations and what he should do when confronted with them, we also make sure that he is protected and supervised all the time and that involves, like you, locking doors as we move around the house.  Its a hard hard road as I am sure others on this site will tell you but massively rewarding at the same time.

I'm not a parent, so listen to what others have said.  However my feeling is that you should go to the parenting class.

You may not learn anything.  If so, great! On the other hand you may also learn things that do help.  I think it's a good rule of thumb in life to always take opportunities for learning.

It will also show willing: if you refuse it's more reason for them to see you as a bad parent.

It will mean working with a proffessional over several sessions: if they can't actually help, hopefully they will see that and will support you in finding the help you need.

Hi Yummymummy140386.

You could be describing our grandson! He has all these issues as well (and many many more) and is now 14. We walk about with a bunch of keys on us to all our doors...its the only way to keep him and our possessions safe.

The first thing I would advise you to do is to throw the guilt out of the window...its a waste of your time and your energy and will only make you feel worse.You will need that energy to fight the good fight!

Then I would print of a list of common autistic traits and behaviours and make yourself a nice clear tick chart so that any expert looking at it will be able to see, very quickly, the issues that are worrying you (I know how hard it is to talk to an expert about the difficulties because ...well ..where do you start???). So have it all written down. This will also give you a clear indication yourself of how many of the common traits your son has. Also sit on your computer and do the AQ test on behalf of your son...this will highlight problems but not diagnose.

I would definately ask to see a different GP at your surgery. You are not asking your GP to diagnose your child but merely to refer you on to somebody who can so he/ she isn't doing their job properly. Your son sounds very high functioning and its not unusual for the parent to diagnose the child long before any expert in the field. You are the expert here on your child.

Try to remain as calm as you can (its really hard..we are all human). Just because your son is high functioning and very verbal, doesn't mean that he isn't having trouble communicating his fear, his confusion and his inability to understand the world. You can be very high functioning and extremely autistic all at the same time. Our grandson certainly is. Many of these behaviours could be coping strategies for him, a way to release some of the anxiety he feels. Our grandson strips wallpaper, pulls tufts out of the carpets and starts fires when he is anxious.

Its quite likely that your son can't see consequence and has difficulty making choices (this comes from an inability to prioritze). This means that he may find it difficult decide on a proper course of action and is often tempted to engage in activity that is damaging, risky or just downright not allowed. Its exasperating for parents because it seems that no matter how many times you tell them its not allowed they never seem to learn. Our grandson lives in the moment. He can't imagine a future and you also need imagination to remember the past.

What looks like disrespect can sometimes just be that your child is struggling to understand what you want or can't concentrate on what you are saying. Our grandson is a very rigid thinker and can't switch from one subject to another like a neurotypical person...I guess its like having a stuck record in your head that you can't turn off. I find that I have to condition myself to react differently and to quietly and calmly keep asking our grandson to do something...sometimes rephrasing or just turning his head towards me to break into his consciousness.

Your description does sound very like PDA (i.e. a subtype of ASD) with

"gets upset if routine or plans are broke" = classic ASD

"doesn't like to be touched" possibly indicates sensory processing disorder - a common issue for people with ASD

The fascination with water also fits.

I was also struck by the phrase on the link I posted before where it says "Many parents of children with PDA feel that they have been wrongly accused of poor parenting through lack of understanding about the condition."

A lot of parents have difficulties getting a diagnosis for their child but it sounds as though PDA can make it even harder for you

You can get a second opinion from a consultant see the following link

www.nhs.uk/.../910.aspx

or you can ultimately change your GP.

Hi, Thank you for your reply.

I have been reporting his behaviour to my GP since he was 2 - They have continuiously dismissed my concerns and told me that hes a normal child.

My son was refered to Camhs but as my child was in a new soical invironment and he is aware that people do notice his behaviour he was as good as gold.

My GP now has referred him to inclusion support, Social services have referred us to bernardos family support and want us to go to parenting classes.

I dont feel that at any point im going to get a diagnosis going through these routes though...... he needs to see a professional paediatric in this subject.

Thank you for the link, I have noted a few things:

J doesnt like to be touched

will shun touch

can be beautifully charming and well behaved in cirtain situations but not in others.

has a facination with water

gets upset if routine or plans are broken

Thank you

There is a lot of support available on the forum - your story is not an isolated or odd case from what I have read.

You might like to read

www.autism.org.uk/.../what-is-pathological-demand-avoidance-syndrome.aspx

What is your GP doing? They should refer him for a specialist mental health opinion. If they refuse then you are entitled to demand a second opinion.