Autistic...or just odd?

johnb0y said:

Martian Tom, thanks for that. How would you rate the annoyance level/intrusion on your life for each of those? How does your anxiety manifest itself?

If you'll indulge me (I'm going to go through your points in order):　

I can handle minor changes with my daily routine without stress. For instance, if someone is in the bath room when I wake up (that is when I brush my teeth, I will move on and in all likely hood, forget to brush my teeth). Or someone coming round unexpectedly. I can even handle going and doing big things like driving 1.5hrs away to pick something up with an hours notice (as long as someone else drives) without thinking too much about it. I need some time to prepare for it though. 

With that said, I think I am in a really good place right now, which allows me to feel comfortable. I know that after doing things like the above, I can come back to my house and not have to see anyone/talk to anyone for a while. I also know that everytime I have tried to be 'normal' and do 'normal things', like have a 9 to 5, spend lots of time around others, I have been broken by it, I don't seem to cope well (anything from shouting to tears to suicidal thoughts). So, I dare say I would cope less well if my circumstances changed.　

I think I might have overcome that. I have learnt I am allowed to say no (only learnt that in the last year though, when I started doing my own thing). I doubt that is helpful to you, especially if it is your boss that tells you to do something.

I also have a problem asserting myself in similar situations. For instance when buying a car. I have a degree in Engineering, but I just seem to forget everything I know as soon as the salesman starts saying things contrary to what I know, or I cannot supply an answer in a reasonable time frame.

Social events get me also. Especially ones which are sufficiently far for me to not know where I am going/going to: park/go to the toilet/eat/drink/be expected to dress up/talk to many people/ etc etc. Needless to say, they never happen spontaneously, nor very often. As an aside, I am perfectly happy to talk to people when the format is correct, such as at the builders merchant, where I have a list of things they can supply me with. Job done. I don't really enjoy small talk.

I set the volume of TV/PC/stereo in sets of 5 only.

I am dreadful at conflict. Hate it, especially verbal, my brain just doesn't work fast enough. Physical arguments I have less issue with. My Mum told me when I was little: "never start  fights, just make sure you finish them".

I dislike people watching me do things. I can almost feel their eyes drilling holes in me. I always make mistakes. I don't mind criticism too much as long as I respect the person criticising me, and the criticism is constructive.

I do try to work in a tidy area, but it just ends up really cluttered up. I need some level of structure/planning to produce any meaningful output. I have just discovered lists are pretty useful for getting me to do things. I bought some whiteboards, one for the things I want to achieve/finish tomorrow. I don't tend to write more than 4-5 things on it however. One for current/short term jobs. One for longer term. Both of these can have many, many things written on them. I feel the physical act of rubbing off the boards is quite motivational.

To add another point:

I do not enjoy places that appear crowded (it is a person per unit area thing). It seems roughly speaking that 4 people (other than me) per 3 square metres is enough to make me feel the fight or flight response.

Hi johnb0y,

The annoyance/anxiety level differs from situation to situation.  I can cope with minor changes, too.  Major changes bring anxiety at a level that's sometimes given me panic attacks.  I've always been told I'm a good and conscientious worker with meticulous attention to detail.  I don't cut corners.  If I'm not happy with a job, I do it again - even to the point of redecorating a room because I wasn't happy with the way I'd hung the paper. Another good example.  I used to work on the produce section of a supermarket. On the early shift (5 am) I used to have to work alone, and my job was to unload the fresh delivery pallets (sometimes as many as 12) and make room in the chiller for the new stock, which often meant having to put out a lot of the previous day's stock first.  To me, it seemed logical: empty the chiller of the previous day's stock first, then start on the delivery pallets. That way, good stock rotation was ensured.  I was duly doing this one morning when a manager came up to me.

'What are you doing?'

I explained.

'No,' he said.  'Work on the load first. Get that out of the way.  Then do your chiller.'

I explained that the chiller held older stock, so needed to go out first....

'Work on the load first!' he shouted.  'And get cracking.  We open in an hour!'

This made no sense at all.  Put 'new' stock out first... then make more work for myself by having to then go around and swap it for old stock.

Forgive the pun... but when he left, I went in the chiller and froze.  My brain couldn't process the conflicting information.  I panicked.  A colleague saw my distress, fortunately, and came to help me.

On those other points:  I don't mind being beaten to the bathroom.  I can handle that.  But I DON'T like unexpected callers.  Often, I simply won't answer the door.  I need to know when people are coming.

If I have to drive a distance, I need to know EXACTLY how to get there.  If I get lost, I go to pieces.  I have a bad sense of direction, and any deviation to a route distresses me.  I recently had to drive 130 miles to an unknown place to pick something up for work.  A colleague came with me.  We got a bit lost.  By the time I got home, I was wrecked.  He kept saying 'Chill, man... so we got lost.  We got there, though.'  Not that simple for me, because it throws my whole day out.  I was two hours late getting home that night, and that, for me, is VERY bad news.  Took me a day or two to recover from that.

I like the routine of 9 to 5.  However, being around other people for too long exhausts me.  At home, I spend all of my time alone.

I found it hard to say 'no' for years.  I do now, though.  If I'm asked to do overtime, I say 'no'.  If I want to do it, I'll volunteer.  It has to be on my terms.  Have you read Herman Melville's short story 'Bartleby the Scrivener'?  I'd recommend it!  You'll see why.

Like you with social events - unless I know the people well.  Even then, though, I don't always go.  My uncle had an 80th birthday party last year.  The whole family went.  But it was a long distance away and would have meant an over-night - so I didn't go.  I need to be able to leave when I'm ready and come home.

I can check just about all of your other points.  Hate conflict - even to the point of compromising myself, which always leaves me feeling bad.  I was quite assertive earlier though, which I was pleased about.  Someone I was talking to started going on about 'greedy Asians'.  I said 'My current landlord is an Asian and he's the fairest landlord I've ever had.  He hasn't put up my rent in four years.  An English landlord I once had, on the other hand, almost killed me because he was too mean and negligent to service the gas boiler properly.'  She didn't pursue that!

I detest being watched.  Even if I'm doing something I know I can do well, if someone's watching, I make a mess of it.  The only time that works is if I'm in firm control of the situation.  Such as when I once tried stand-up comedy.  As soon as my stint was over, though, I disappeared!

I hate crowds.  I hate being touched.  Even gestures of comfort.  The other week, when I was at the hospital with mum and it was touch-and-go, my niece took my arm and rubbed my hand.  A normal comforting gesture.  But all I could think was 'Please take your hands off of me!'

Fight or flight?  Flight.  Every time.

My last comment, though - given you've spoken about 'doubt' with autism - is that you must remember that it's a spectrum condition.  We all have different behaviours, responses, traits.  No autistic person is exactly the same.  If you know 20 autistic people - you know 20 entirely different people.

johnb0y said:

Martian Tom, thanks for that. How would you rate the annoyance level/intrusion on your life for each of those? How does your anxiety manifest itself?

If you'll indulge me (I'm going to go through your points in order):　

I can handle minor changes with my daily routine without stress. For instance, if someone is in the bath room when I wake up (that is when I brush my teeth, I will move on and in all likely hood, forget to brush my teeth). Or someone coming round unexpectedly. I can even handle going and doing big things like driving 1.5hrs away to pick something up with an hours notice (as long as someone else drives) without thinking too much about it. I need some time to prepare for it though. 

With that said, I think I am in a really good place right now, which allows me to feel comfortable. I know that after doing things like the above, I can come back to my house and not have to see anyone/talk to anyone for a while. I also know that everytime I have tried to be 'normal' and do 'normal things', like have a 9 to 5, spend lots of time around others, I have been broken by it, I don't seem to cope well (anything from shouting to tears to suicidal thoughts). So, I dare say I would cope less well if my circumstances changed.　

I think I might have overcome that. I have learnt I am allowed to say no (only learnt that in the last year though, when I started doing my own thing). I doubt that is helpful to you, especially if it is your boss that tells you to do something.

I also have a problem asserting myself in similar situations. For instance when buying a car. I have a degree in Engineering, but I just seem to forget everything I know as soon as the salesman starts saying things contrary to what I know, or I cannot supply an answer in a reasonable time frame.

Social events get me also. Especially ones which are sufficiently far for me to not know where I am going/going to: park/go to the toilet/eat/drink/be expected to dress up/talk to many people/ etc etc. Needless to say, they never happen spontaneously, nor very often. As an aside, I am perfectly happy to talk to people when the format is correct, such as at the builders merchant, where I have a list of things they can supply me with. Job done. I don't really enjoy small talk.

I set the volume of TV/PC/stereo in sets of 5 only.

I am dreadful at conflict. Hate it, especially verbal, my brain just doesn't work fast enough. Physical arguments I have less issue with. My Mum told me when I was little: "never start  fights, just make sure you finish them".

I dislike people watching me do things. I can almost feel their eyes drilling holes in me. I always make mistakes. I don't mind criticism too much as long as I respect the person criticising me, and the criticism is constructive.

I do try to work in a tidy area, but it just ends up really cluttered up. I need some level of structure/planning to produce any meaningful output. I have just discovered lists are pretty useful for getting me to do things. I bought some whiteboards, one for the things I want to achieve/finish tomorrow. I don't tend to write more than 4-5 things on it however. One for current/short term jobs. One for longer term. Both of these can have many, many things written on them. I feel the physical act of rubbing off the boards is quite motivational.

To add another point:

I do not enjoy places that appear crowded (it is a person per unit area thing). It seems roughly speaking that 4 people (other than me) per 3 square metres is enough to make me feel the fight or flight response.

Hi johnb0y,

The annoyance/anxiety level differs from situation to situation.  I can cope with minor changes, too.  Major changes bring anxiety at a level that's sometimes given me panic attacks.  I've always been told I'm a good and conscientious worker with meticulous attention to detail.  I don't cut corners.  If I'm not happy with a job, I do it again - even to the point of redecorating a room because I wasn't happy with the way I'd hung the paper. Another good example.  I used to work on the produce section of a supermarket. On the early shift (5 am) I used to have to work alone, and my job was to unload the fresh delivery pallets (sometimes as many as 12) and make room in the chiller for the new stock, which often meant having to put out a lot of the previous day's stock first.  To me, it seemed logical: empty the chiller of the previous day's stock first, then start on the delivery pallets. That way, good stock rotation was ensured.  I was duly doing this one morning when a manager came up to me.

'What are you doing?'

I explained.

'No,' he said.  'Work on the load first. Get that out of the way.  Then do your chiller.'

I explained that the chiller held older stock, so needed to go out first....

'Work on the load first!' he shouted.  'And get cracking.  We open in an hour!'

This made no sense at all.  Put 'new' stock out first... then make more work for myself by having to then go around and swap it for old stock.

Forgive the pun... but when he left, I went in the chiller and froze.  My brain couldn't process the conflicting information.  I panicked.  A colleague saw my distress, fortunately, and came to help me.

On those other points:  I don't mind being beaten to the bathroom.  I can handle that.  But I DON'T like unexpected callers.  Often, I simply won't answer the door.  I need to know when people are coming.

If I have to drive a distance, I need to know EXACTLY how to get there.  If I get lost, I go to pieces.  I have a bad sense of direction, and any deviation to a route distresses me.  I recently had to drive 130 miles to an unknown place to pick something up for work.  A colleague came with me.  We got a bit lost.  By the time I got home, I was wrecked.  He kept saying 'Chill, man... so we got lost.  We got there, though.'  Not that simple for me, because it throws my whole day out.  I was two hours late getting home that night, and that, for me, is VERY bad news.  Took me a day or two to recover from that.

I like the routine of 9 to 5.  However, being around other people for too long exhausts me.  At home, I spend all of my time alone.

I found it hard to say 'no' for years.  I do now, though.  If I'm asked to do overtime, I say 'no'.  If I want to do it, I'll volunteer.  It has to be on my terms.  Have you read Herman Melville's short story 'Bartleby the Scrivener'?  I'd recommend it!  You'll see why.

Like you with social events - unless I know the people well.  Even then, though, I don't always go.  My uncle had an 80th birthday party last year.  The whole family went.  But it was a long distance away and would have meant an over-night - so I didn't go.  I need to be able to leave when I'm ready and come home.

I can check just about all of your other points.  Hate conflict - even to the point of compromising myself, which always leaves me feeling bad.  I was quite assertive earlier though, which I was pleased about.  Someone I was talking to started going on about 'greedy Asians'.  I said 'My current landlord is an Asian and he's the fairest landlord I've ever had.  He hasn't put up my rent in four years.  An English landlord I once had, on the other hand, almost killed me because he was too mean and negligent to service the gas boiler properly.'  She didn't pursue that!

I detest being watched.  Even if I'm doing something I know I can do well, if someone's watching, I make a mess of it.  The only time that works is if I'm in firm control of the situation.  Such as when I once tried stand-up comedy.  As soon as my stint was over, though, I disappeared!

I hate crowds.  I hate being touched.  Even gestures of comfort.  The other week, when I was at the hospital with mum and it was touch-and-go, my niece took my arm and rubbed my hand.  A normal comforting gesture.  But all I could think was 'Please take your hands off of me!'

Fight or flight?  Flight.  Every time.

My last comment, though - given you've spoken about 'doubt' with autism - is that you must remember that it's a spectrum condition.  We all have different behaviours, responses, traits.  No autistic person is exactly the same.  If you know 20 autistic people - you know 20 entirely different people.