Housing Crisis

I can’t stand the term “crisis” it’s so over used and misused these days it’s totally lost it’s meaning.

The “housing crisis” in the UK is a lie started by the government and building contractors to artificially justify building houses everywhere because it has such an impact on the growth of the economy.

The issue with housing is the attitude towards long term renting, poor quality rental stock (sometime just plane dangerous), not enough legislation around controlling the quality of housing stock or the manpower to implement it. If you are in a position to own second, third...tenth homes you’re criticised and targeted by the socialist left who want to tax you to within an inch of your life for doing well in the world.

The Riddler said:

The “housing crisis” in the UK is a lie started by the government and building contractors to artificially justify building houses everywhere because it has such an impact on the growth of the economy.

I'm not sure this is the full picture although there maybe an element of truth regarding artificiality of intentions. I think it comes down to the difference between genuine low-cost, Social Housing and  Private house building with only profit in mind. The problem is we have one party who sees the crisis in the former and the other party who are only concerned about the latter. In any case the problem lies in affordability and the shortage of affordable, sustainable homes for people. This is true in both Social Housing and in the Private market for first-time buyers. For example, if you have a look at Council or Social Housing waiting lists around the country, they go into the millions, with stories of years and even decades of waiting to no avail. I would say this is where the crisis really is and because it has not been addressed it has led to a multitude of of other social problems which has institutionalised insecurity & poverty basically. We can't have it both ways. If low-waged, insecure work, zero-hour contracts, gig-economy etc etc are encouraged where are these people supposed to live ? Where can they afford realistically ? We are also talking about essential workers that our economy can't function without ; hospital staff from nurses to cleaners, supermarket & store workers, care home workers etc etc etc.

The Housing Crisis does not end there. There are also those who may be fortunate enough to have more secure jobs & incomes and even help with mortgage deposits from parents who also struggle to get on the housing ladder because the costs are simply to high. You can't just throw out a few gesture policies that say you are building a handful of  ' affordable homes ' in the private market only and expect to address the problems above. There cannot be any surprise then when mental health issues, crime, poverty, homelessness, domestic violence, prison populations and so on go through the roof when these problems are ignored. You can be the judge if these problems are caused by the former or latter parties.

The Riddler said:

The issue with housing is the attitude towards long term renting, poor quality rental stock (sometime just plane dangerous), not enough legislation around controlling the quality of housing stock or the manpower to implement it.

I couldn't agree more and am with you that gov regulation is the only way this can happen but without addressing Social Housing there can be no balance or solution. Policies Simply focusing on the Private Housing Market alone is not addressing the problem at all. 

The Riddler said:

If you are in a position to own second, third...tenth homes you’re criticised and targeted by the socialist left who want to tax you to within an inch of your life for doing well in the world.

It's all about balance is it not ? Is it better for a handful of people in ( the overall population ratio ) to own ten homes tax free at the expense of millions not able to have one secure place to live ? You can't have it both ways. You can't have an economy that encourages a boom & bust housing market with a few winners and lots of losers and expect more balanced housing policies you talk about in other parts of Europe for example can you ?

I still think the 'crisis' is purely a huge number of people wanting a lifestyle that they can't afford - for whatever reason - and expecting everyone else to support their fantasy.      The welfare state has created a mass of entitlement and is the cause of all of people's unrealistic dreams.

People just demanding that they want a place to live shouldn't obligate everyone else to pay for their desires.

If you look at the number of council houses that are sublet, you'll realise that the crisis is totally manufactured.    Houses for the needy are now cash-cows for slum landlords because they know no-one will do their job in either the housing or benefit offices.     And in a country where everything is computerised, it shouldn't take 5 minutes to match addresses with names to sort it out.

I still think the 'crisis' is purely a huge number of people wanting a lifestyle that they can't afford - for whatever reason - and expecting everyone else to support their fantasy.      The welfare state has created a mass of entitlement and is the cause of all of people's unrealistic dreams.

People just demanding that they want a place to live shouldn't obligate everyone else to pay for their desires.

If you look at the number of council houses that are sublet, you'll realise that the crisis is totally manufactured.    Houses for the needy are now cash-cows for slum landlords because they know no-one will do their job in either the housing or benefit offices.     And in a country where everything is computerised, it shouldn't take 5 minutes to match addresses with names to sort it out.

AutToFindOutMore said:

My employment is a part time job, I don't earn enough to get a mortgage, so I live in housing association flat.

Are you committing fraud ? If not then it's not everyone in Social Housing committing it is it ? Also, if you look at things from a different perspective, you'll find that HA's prefer people either not working or in part-time employment as they are guaranteed regular rent payments from Housing Benefit whereas, others who may find themselves in insecure, zero-hours or precarious work may get into rent arrears and debt very easily. This set-up also benefits large employers who have a staggering amount of part-time staff thus less commitments, lower wages, less employee rights or benefits than they would have employing full-time workers. They also know housing benefit will pay their rent. So from one perspective, this could be seen as public sector subsidies to large private employers. I mean even if someone was working full-time for min-wage or thereabouts and paying full rent in this situation, their rent costs would be 50% or more of their income, leaving them roughly £100 or less to live on for working 40 hours a week ? Again, I'm talking about many who are essential workers who we can't do without. It's also easy to see why there are so many foodbanks being used by those in full-time employment.

I'm not condoning cheats but you can kind of see how the system is in many ways set-up for it to be inevitable. When people are at the bottom or at rock-bottom it is often a case of survival mode. If people lose jobs, get into debt through insecure work, have undiagnosed mental-health problems etc etc then a downward spiral can lead to all sorts of additional problems. It's not a bleeding-heart story and there are a few who will always be cheats for no good reason in all walks of life who some of us struggle to believe they are part of the same human species. Not everything is black & white but it helps to look from many different perspectives to get the bigger picture. So all I'm saying is it's important not to get carried away or focusing only on those few who cheat the system and tarring everyone with the same brush. We have been beaten over the head with this kind of thing for 40 years by the Tabloids and certain politicians for all sorts of reasons, from ramming through austerity, to shifting the heat off themselves or in the run-up to elections to gain votes. It gets a bit tiring after a while, especially when there is absolutely no intention of changing the system for it's biggest benefactors but only to cause more misery at the bottom. 

Like I say, there are plenty of sensational headlines and simple slogans around in the media for ulterior motives, but there aren't many who like to go into any depth or even many prepared to hear it once the can of worms is opened. People prefer the simple headlines & slogans and they know it. 

Turtle said:

My point is, if you have read anything above, that it can often be painted that everyone in Social Housing or on benefits is a cheat and that corruption in general reported/convicted at the bottom of society. This is what you are doing too isn't it ?

I spent the first few years of my life in council housing. My employment is a part time job, I don't earn enough to get a mortgage, so I live in housing association flat. I see things with my own eyes, I speak to other tenants, I take an interest in the subject of social housing so I feel entitled to comment about it.  Since I wrote my comment above, I have recalled further stories about misuse of social of social housing near me , but to prevent discord, I won't relate them here.

Turtle said:

Your link is not reporting any Middle or Upper Class fraud or corruption is it ?

I am sure I could come up with some, if I looked online (mortgage fraud, bad landlords etc).  However, I don't have any first hand experience that I can speak about.

AutToFindOutMore said:

There is some fraud in the system.  Some years ago, I knew some people lived in a flat in a hostel, they said that one guy had a place in the flat, but he was rarely there as he really lived with his girlfriend, but he had told the benefits people that he lived at his girlfriends address, he wouldn't have been entitled to benefits.  I think that they found out and ended his tenancy.

Sure. I have never said there wasn't. Ukgov has benefit fraud at 2% or so whilst there are £millions of unclaimed benefits also. Much more than any fraud in fact. 

My point is, if you have read anything above, that it can often be painted that everyone in Social Housing or on benefits is a cheat and that corruption in general reported/convicted at the bottom of society. This is what you are doing too isn't it ? Your link is not reporting any Middle or Upper Class fraud or corruption is it ?

There is widely thought to be some subletting, particularly in big cities such as London, where the demand for housing is large and there are plenty of jobs. I have seen that in tv documentries, also for example subletting of flats is mentioned in this link:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-40471554?intlink_from_url=&

There is some fraud in the system.  Some years ago, I knew some people lived in a flat in a hostel, they said that one guy had a place in the flat, but he was rarely there as he really lived with his girlfriend, but he had told the benefits people that he lived at his girlfriends address, he wouldn't have been entitled to benefits.  I think that they found out and ended his tenancy.

Again, you are looking through rose-tinted glasses or speaking from your own moral high ground and presenting 2nd or 3rd hand information or gossip as facts whilst painting a picture of everyone deemed beneath you or at the bottom of society as scum-of-the earth types bleeding the system dry. Of course, this is a well oiled system privately owned media rolls out to take away the attention of all the corruption at the top. We saw this endlessly during the financial crisis ; Benefit Street, parents with 20 kids, scroungers, shirkers, Jeremy Kyle and the list is endless. 

In my experience, there are cheats and corruption in all big organisations and individually in all walks of life but they are the minority not the majority. It's just that the mass media is not run or owned by those at the bottom. Are you trying to say there is no corruption from private contractors or individuals carrying out maintenance or public sector contracts or even the awarding of said contracts ? Or that insurance fraud is committed only by those in Social Housing when the vast majority in Social Housing do not have insurance ? No offence but your worldview is upside down and heavily biased.

Plastic said:

Also, it's the never-ending supply of housing benefit money which creates and fuels the housing market's price inflation - while the local authority will cough out cash, the landlord will charge to the hilt - and a bit more..

The amount any authority will pay out is capped at a fixed amount based on number of bedrooms required. The tenant would have to make up the difference if rent charges are above the fixed amount so if you are implying the notion that a landlord can charge what he wants and Housing Benefit will cover it then you are yet again wrong in your opinions.  

Unfortunately, the media today is awash with drip-fed sensationalism that many people mistake as independent Journalism or facts. When these things are repeated often enough people start to believe it as fact. It's pretty pointless engaging in on-the-surface type, knee-jerk - reactionary, tabloid populism that have opinions and simple slogans on everything but knowledge or depth in nothing and confusing it with being informed or being armed with knowledge for a meaningful debate, passionate or actually caring about the subject matter. 

I have friends who work for the council / housing associations as repair men - fixing all the things that get reported-  they say that the corruption is vast - the names on the tenants list rarely match the people living in the house - and no-one in management want to know..     Everyone always want to hear the bleeding-heart stories but no-one wants to really pick the scab.

Worse than that, a lot of the things that are broken are obviously deliberately broken to get a free redecoration service or are things like doors or windows broken to get a crime number so they can commit insurance fraud for a bigger TV and X-box - or to claim they are not safe so they get jumped up the housing list for a better property.    It's unbelievable..

Also, it's the never-ending supply of housing benefit money which creates and fuels the housing market's price inflation - while the local authority will cough out cash, the landlord will charge to the hilt - and a bit more..

Plastic said:

I still think the 'crisis' is purely a huge number of people wanting a lifestyle that they can't afford - for whatever reason - and expecting everyone else to support their fantasy.      The welfare state has created a mass of entitlement and is the cause of all of people's unrealistic dreams.

Food & shelter are the most fundamental, essential human necessities. Without them we would not survive. Having a roof over one's head provides basic dignity to the individual and elementary decency as a society. It's hardly " wanting a lifestyle that they can't afford " or having " unrealistic dreams " is it ? What exactly are these unrealistic dreams you are referring to ?

Plastic said:

People just demanding that they want a place to live shouldn't obligate everyone else to pay for their desires.

Again, wanting a place to live is not merely a desire it is a basic human necessity and who is obligating  " everyone " else to pay for it ? If you are referring to Housing Benefit why don't we simply just scrap it altogether ? Who are the main benefactors of it ?

Plastic said:

If you look at the number of council houses that are sublet, you'll realise that the crisis is totally manufactured.    Houses for the needy are now cash-cows for slum landlords because they know no-one will do their job in either the housing or benefit offices.     And in a country where everything is computerised, it shouldn't take 5 minutes to match addresses with names to sort it out.

Do you have the figures on this or is it more of your own opinion, bias and prejudices ? Firstly, there are not that many council houses left, down by around 70% since the 80's. Secondly, subletting council homes is illegal so would be really interesting to know where you get your information from ? And lastly, why was housing benefit created in the first place ?