Published on 12, July, 2020
I’d really appreciate some advice about how to proceed now that my partner has ended our relationship. We got together more than 6 years ago, but it is only in the past year that I’ve become convinced that he has Aspergers. He is now in his mid-50s and I am more than 10 years younger. At several points in our relationship he has gone through very deep periods of depression and anxiety and is in a particularly deep one right now. I need help to assess whether to accept it is over and move on, or try to help him even more, as I believe that he may be shutting me out because of fear.
He has been struggling with these issues all his life and has developed sophisticated tools to disguise what’s really going on with him, has no close friends and although he had girlfriends before me, the relationships were highly dysfunctional and almost devoid of intimacy. In the early part of our relationship I just thought that he had “commitment issues” which I was relaxed about as he wasn’t really my type even though I liked him very much as a colleague, and found him attractive. After about a year of having caring but casual fun, I tried to bring it to a natural end but to my astonishment he strongly requested that we give it a proper go. I agreed on the basis that we deepen the commitment and the intimacy and he did. It was an astonishing and lasting change and ever since physical affection has been the strongest, loveliest part of our relationship, even when I’m struggling because we don’t really have anything to talk about.
He matches the Aspergers definitions very strongly is some ways but not in others. He is highly functional and most people (including myself in the early days) think of him as private, but more-than socially competent and easy-going. But I’ve been able to see ‘behind the curtain’ over the years and he matches all of these http://www.autism.org.uk/professionals/teachers/breaking-barriers/asperger.aspx and almost all of these points http://www.autism.org.uk/gp#Checklist for adults. After the first couple of years his lack of social skills became almost paralyzing,; we’ll visit my friends and he is sullen and distracted to the extent of causing general discomfort, so that I’ve just stopped seeing them when he’s in town. He’s known my mother for years now and we’ve even lived with her for a while but she says that she feels like she doesn’t know him any better than the day they met. He has a limited range of interests, mostly related to his profession, but they’ve lost their ‘interest’ and he confesses that they’ve become little more than joyless distractions and he's struggling professionally and spiritually now. Communication between us is stilted and I confess that I’m feeling lonely and bored.
He has disguised these issues in large part by maintaining an itinerant lifestyle – a professional one in which he is very well-respected. It means that social interaction is kept superficial and ensures that he can “escape” (his word) whenever responsibilities become too pressing. This is where I get confused about an Aspergers diagnosis because his love of routine is actually a regular change-of-routine, although he maintains very identifiable habits and methodology in each new place. Our whole relationship has been punctuated with gaps of weeks or months at a time, but I had a similar lifestyle until the past year, so it worked well enough and we’ve have been working towards building a more stable base together, which is what he said, repeatedly and vehemently, was what he wanted. Until a few days ago when he said he realized that it isn’t, and that he wants out permanently.
I am also a trigger. I’m prone to ‘reactive’ depression and can be overly sensitive anyway, but recent events have been uniquely hard. In the past 18 months I have had 2 of the most challenging experiences of my life, including the recent traumatic death of my father, whom I loved very much and nursed through his last few months. My partner absented himself from both of these experiences – literally and figuratively – and my feelings about him have been deeply shaken by his lack of support. He even tried to break up with me the day after my father died because I wanted him to come back to help me through the funeral; he said it was “too much for him”. He did eventually come back for the funeral but I made that clear that even if he is in a bad state, this is unacceptable behavior if we’re in a relationship and the tension has been clearly been a factor in his current state of mind. He rarely says he loves me, but despite how bad it all sounds, he is extremely loving in almost every other way; faithful, generous, and generally tries very hard to be a good boyfriend. I was also single for a long time before we met and I know that meeting someone new won't be on the horizon for a very long time, if ever. I'm a very independent person, but I like being in a committed relationship. At times there is a very beautiful bond between us, which I will be very sad to let go of.
I have been trying to get him to think about the Aspergers possibility, but he has completely dismissed it. He shut down to the point of almost non-functionality last week and I eventually persuaded him to take the online test. He did it in private and it came out at 18 – well under the limit. When I reviewed the questions with him, he had fudged the answers, whether to deliberately ‘pass’, or just because of a profound lack of self-awareness, I’m not sure. I re-took it on his behalf, with him present for consultation and the result came over 32. He found this very difficult to accept and told me that the relationship was over the following morning. He has since left on one of his trips, resolute and having changed his arrangements so that it is possible that I may not see him again.
I’m clearly struggling. The relationship was far from perfect and I’ve wanted out myself many times, but so far I’ve always come to the conclusion that the good outweighs the bad. Now I’m not sure if I have an option of whether to continue or not, but I am deeply concerned about the welfare of this man that I care deeply for, particularly as he’s pushing away the only person he has ever let into his life.
Advice from the Aspergers community would be very much appreciated.
Hi Mara,
I've read this thread and the various point made and thought that some of my experience could be useful.
I met CC 8 years ago, we fell in love, lived together and eventually married. I'm NT and he was diagnosed Aspergers 18 months ago at the age of 59. His diagnosis was the best thing that ever happened to him as it finally explained his life and behaviours, this came about after years and years of mis-diagnosis, suicide attempts and counselling. It was also something that he wanted, not something he was forced into (you couldn't force him to do anything!)
At the beginning he told me that he didn't know how to be loved. He readily gave me his love and support in abundance. Despite this, he would never make that final commitment as he was terrified the bubble would burst and he would be on his own again and his worst fear - damage me beyond repair in the process. He couldn't believe that he was loveable. He would push me away to try to save me pain and heartache.
The words that will always stay with me were "You need to love me the most when I least deserve it" - I managed that because he was worth it.
I loved him for who he was, his behaviour issues were part of the man I loved and if they got in the way of any situations, we would compromise and learn how to deal with it. Similarly, my behaviours could get in the way of things too!!! The word compromise sums it up really - compromise not change. If you have to change things that much, why are you bothering?
It's clear that you care very much for this man and wish you the best of luck.
Martian Tom said:It often seems to me that the rest of the world is a clique, and I can't find the way in. An example I like to use is that I'm a cat in a room full of dogs, and all of those dogs are looking at me and thinking I'm a very odd dog - even though I'm a cat. I try to act dog-like. I bark sometimes. I run after a stick occasionally. But still they're thinking 'That's one very odd dog, there...' They don't see that I'm not a dog at all. I'm a cat.
It often seems to me that the rest of the world is a clique, and I can't find the way in. An example I like to use is that I'm a cat in a room full of dogs, and all of those dogs are looking at me and thinking I'm a very odd dog - even though I'm a cat. I try to act dog-like. I bark sometimes. I run after a stick occasionally. But still they're thinking 'That's one very odd dog, there...' They don't see that I'm not a dog at all. I'm a cat.
That's brilliant! Mind if I use that myself? Thats EXACTLY what it's like for me.
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Use away, Paul! It's interesting, but I had a training course today on 'Communication' in care work roles. There was a long list of people who might struggle with communication, but no mention of autism! I pointed this out, and was told it came under the general category of 'learning difficulties.' The trainer then started talking about 'bad' behaviour and how to deal with it. I was straight in on that one, as you can imagine. 'Bad' behaviour? Or 'different' behaviour? I used that dogs and cat analogy. I got a few odd looks. Even trainers need a little training, sometimes...
That's one ignorant trainer. I for one have no difficulies in learning. Apart from leaning about human (or NT) behaviour -that I struggle with.
Aspies are usually above average intelligence - I hope you pointed that out!
Bad behaviour? How patronising. I hope the trainer took what you said on board.
Anonymous said:It often seems to me that the rest of the world is a clique, and I can't find the way in. An example I like to use is that I'm a cat in a room full of dogs, and all of those dogs are looking at me and thinking I'm a very odd dog - even though I'm a cat. I try to act dog-like. I bark sometimes. I run after a stick occasionally. But still they're thinking 'That's one very odd dog, there...' They don't see that I'm not a dog at all. I'm a cat.
Pixiefox said:But as I mentioned before, Aspies get bullied, ostracised and manipulated more than most people, by a certain type of NT person who seems to have no concept of how they are hurting someone by behaving like that. Aspies tend to trust other Aspies more due to having similar problems and experiences, and so can sometimes get a bit protective of each other. It's not a "clique" situation though, in the usual sense of things.
But as I mentioned before, Aspies get bullied, ostracised and manipulated more than most people, by a certain type of NT person who seems to have no concept of how they are hurting someone by behaving like that. Aspies tend to trust other Aspies more due to having similar problems and experiences, and so can sometimes get a bit protective of each other. It's not a "clique" situation though, in the usual sense of things.
I can give a personal context on this. I work in a day centre for special needs adults, including people with autism. I work, daily, with 15 other members of staff, all of whom are either trained in, or have extensive experience in, working with autistic people - but only one other of whom is an Aspie, like me. I like to arrive for work early and be there before the others arrive - I find it easier that way. For the first hour, the others turn up in dribs and drabs and we sit around a table chit-chatting and discussing the day ahead. With two or three other people there, I'm always included in the conversational centre-of-gravity. Once numbers get up to around six or seven, though, I'm drifting to the periphery. I'm doing my best to keep engaged - but don't seem to hold it the way the others do. Usually at around ten people, I'm excluded entirely. The other Aspie, too, tends to sit alone - though he gets included more as he's been there a lot longer than I have. Plus... I don't think he's told the others he's an Aspie. He told me because I told him - as I've told everyone else. The other revealing thing is that I've been in the job since February. Several other staff members have started since then, and they've all become much better integrated with the other staff than I have - getting asked for phone numbers, befriending on social media, high-fives and back-slaps - that kind of thing. I've always been told that I'm a warm and friendly person, and I'm sure that's how I come across now. But still, people don't seem so interested in me. I've learnt a lot over the years about how to behave neurotypically, and I'm probably less autistic than I used to be. I've learned to ask people about themselves, and show feeling. I've learned to listen. I still misjudge conversations, though. I'm sure I still over-compensate. And I still can't do eye contact or understand body language very well. Maybe those are factors behind it all. I expect if I could step outside of myself and see myself engaging with others, I might pick up some further clues. But there it is. People seem to like me. But they don't take to me, and never have. It often seems to me that the rest of the world is a clique, and I can't find the way in. An example I like to use is that I'm a cat in a room full of dogs, and all of those dogs are looking at me and thinking I'm a very odd dog - even though I'm a cat. I try to act dog-like. I bark sometimes. I run after a stick occasionally. But still they're thinking 'That's one very odd dog, there...' They don't see that I'm not a dog at all. I'm a cat.
Mara, re the "us vs them politicisation" you feel is going on with some posters on this thread.
Most Aspies know at least one non Aspie person who is kind and caring, or at least quite pleasant! I know a guy who scored 12 on the AQ test and I would trust him completely to not bully me or make me feel inferior. But as I mentioned before, Aspies get bullied, ostracised and manipulated more than most people, by a certain type of NT person who seems to have no concept of how they are hurting someone by behaving like that. Aspies tend to trust other Aspies more due to having similar problems and experiences, and so can sometimes get a bit protective of each other. It's not a "clique" situation though, in the usual sense of things.
I've just found an interesting website by an Aspie, which gives some ideas about why Aspies will often "back off " from a relationship:
life-with-aspergers.blogspot.co.uk/.../why-do-aspies-suddenly-back-off-in.html
Hope this is of some help
Pixie
Pixiefox said:Aspies are often not able to feel they belong in any group - even their family in some cases. They are frequently bullied for being different. They often want to connect with other people, but because they have problems processing verbal communication and don't naturally pick up on non verbal communication (e.g. Body language, tone of voice, etc) it is hard work. We come onto this forum to try to connect with others in a non verbal, non threatening way, in the hope we can learn more about ourselves and help each other. That's its purpose.
Aspies are often not able to feel they belong in any group - even their family in some cases. They are frequently bullied for being different. They often want to connect with other people, but because they have problems processing verbal communication and don't naturally pick up on non verbal communication (e.g. Body language, tone of voice, etc) it is hard work. We come onto this forum to try to connect with others in a non verbal, non threatening way, in the hope we can learn more about ourselves and help each other. That's its purpose.
Perfectly put. I've never had a sense of 'belonging' anywhere. Even in political groups, with a common sense of purpose, I've been an 'outsider'. As for the bullying... you learn to accept it, almost - and feel you probably deserve it, for some reason. Fight or flight? Flight. Always.
OP is Original Poster - the person who started the thread. You in this case.
Pixie hit the nail right on the head. Says it better than I can.
All the best.
Paul
Thanks Pixie,
I'm a little confused about the relationship you describe AS people to have with pride or community as it is at odds with some of the responses to this thread, so far the only contact I've had with people who identify themselves as AS. There's a clear "us vs them" politicisation that has taken me - as a total newcomer to the topic - by surprise (what's an OP by the way?). No comment on whether that's a good or bad thing (apart from the generalisation of the motivation of all "NTs"! As described earlier, I'm quite a few shades into the spectrum myself!) just an observation that it does appear that a community which is engaged with the AS label and its implications is extant.
Your advice to my personal situation is really good, and I think that's exactly what I'll do: some space and then clear, honest written communication with the emotions turned down.
Tom's frankness about how difficult AS/NT relationships can be has really taken me places too. This thread has not been easy reading for me, but it really has given me a much more direct sense of scale of what it would take to make this work, how deep and broad the issues with AS interpersonal relationships are - the tangents have been as illuminating as the personalised advice!
It has been very strongly pointed out that it's not my place to make him address this issue if he does not want to, and I accept that completely. It does seem clear that he wants to continue his life as someone who does not recognise himself as AS. But it is my place to say that I can't be part of a relationship in which he doesn't want to try to address (meaning come to terms with and embrace if he so wishes) his issues with depression, anxiety, responsibility and emotional connection. I already give him more space than any couple I know; he's been away 50% of the past year - I'd prefer about 60/40 together, but also like my own space enough for that to be do-able.
If he did feel he was ready to explore AS as a couple, I would be more than willing to work together to do that, even if it's just to get an assessment and find that he is definitely not AS as he believes. But it is starting to seem that he genuinely would find life more manageable as a single person, regardless. I'm leaden with sadness for the loss of this once lovely thing, but ready to let go.
Thanks again for helping me to understand AS better.
Hi again Mara
You wrote "Because as noble as self-pride, and pride in one's identified community is..."
This I think illustrates one of the differences between Aspies and NTs. I will try to explain.
NTs live in a social "Web" which includes various groups they belong to and identify with, including family, religion, clubs, political parties, etc. They can feel proud of being part of these groups, or even feel proud of their nationality or ethnicity.
I don't believe Aspies feel pride very often, and when we do it's not pride in being part of any group or community - it's more a satisfaction in an achievement. We can get very self absorbed, but this is neither pride or arrogance, and is definitely not intended to make you feel like an outsider, if that is the case.
Although we feel emotions strongly, our range of emotions is limited, mainly to anxiety, fear, anger and contentment. Emotions like pride and jealousy are uncommon - we don't really see the point of them.
I know you're hurt and some of the points people have made on this thread don't seem helpful with that, but that's a bit what it's like for an Aspie trying to make sense of what NTs say and do.
But returning to your problem, you said that you thought it might be better to give him some space for a while and I agree. Then I would suggest contacting him in writing, see what his response is and take it from there. If you want him back, be prepared to be patient. Be prepared to just accept him for what he is, bearing in mind what you have learned about autism, without pressurising him into anything - feeling under pressure to behave in a certain way / conform to expectations results in a fight or flight response - in his case the latter. This "moving on" and "burning bridges" behaviour is very common in Aspies and is a sort of self defence mechanism.
You sound like a very caring person and I really hope things work out well for you.
Kindest regards
Pixie x
clovis said:The OP's partner is not 'hiding' from a diagnosis. He may well have decided that its not for him and would not help him lead a better life. All of us diagnosed in later life know that with diagnosis comes the labelling by professionals that demands you think of yourself as disabled and defective. There is no 'help' for adult autistic people and you're left on your own to cope with the most life-changing bit of news you may ever get.
The OP's partner is not 'hiding' from a diagnosis. He may well have decided that its not for him and would not help him lead a better life. All of us diagnosed in later life know that with diagnosis comes the labelling by professionals that demands you think of yourself as disabled and defective. There is no 'help' for adult autistic people and you're left on your own to cope with the most life-changing bit of news you may ever get.
Yes. The psychiatrist who diagnosed me made all sorts of recommendations to help me:
* Psycho-education regarding ASD
* Long-term psychotherapy, preferably under the Specialist Autism Team at the Maudsley Hospital in London
* Ongoing support from the Community Mental Health Team
So far (probably given my age) none of that has been forthcoming. The last letter I received was last October, to say funding had been refused for the Maudsley SAT, with the recommendation that I should be referred to local ASD services. There are none.
I'm not sure what else to suggest to you, Mara - sorry. All of my partners have struggled to come to terms with my behaviour. With my last partner, I had the diagnosis for her guidance. She understood all the behaviours at the start, and what to expect. It didn't help. As understanding as she might have been, she still couldn't cope.
I'm still glad I got that diagnosis, though. But I can understand why it wouldn't be for everyone.
I sincerely hope it works out for you.
Hi Clovis
I get entirely what you are saying but from my own experience it's better to know as it helps me understand myself better, helps my wife to understand me better and gives me a fighting chance of navigating an NT biased world. I had 2 breakdowns and nearly lost my marriage before I finally found out what was going on. Knowlege is power, as they say.
I'm not Mara's partner and don't know what's going on in his head but I do believe that it's better to embrace what you are.
I don't consider myself defective or disabled but I am aware that I'm not the same as many of the people around me and accepting and understanding that helps.
The OP may see diagnosis as a way to understand her partner. If you can only understand your partner by getting them to accept they are disabled....well I would run a mile too.
And Martian Tom of course you are fine as you are. We get no validation of who aor what we are from society and are encouraged to think we're always in the wrong. A supposedly normal NT who was asked to struggle as we have to every day would not last half an hour. Give yourself the credit that is due!
Hi Mara
Going off at tangents is something that Aspies (well, me anyway) do from time to time - feel free to bring the discussion back on topic. We'll (try to) continue to help.
He may not have been deliberately misrepresenting himself. He may have just been trying hard to fit into society's norms. Even though we are a bit different in some ways we still need to love and be loved.
Do let us know if you get in contact and what happens.
This thread seems to have gone off on a tangent again. I haven't used forums like this before and have perhaps misunderstood their purpose.
The point that Clovis and Tom discuss above is indeed salient to a discussion about AS identified persons who have come to understand and appreciate themselves fully, and hopefully empowering to those who, like my (ex)partner, have not yet been able to address, accept or integrate their unique qualities.
But my question was actually about how to help someone who is hiding away from the possibility that they may be AS, and in fearing and hiding away from it, miss the opportunity to to do just that?
Because as noble as self-pride, and pride in one's identified community is, having difficulty with empathy and not understanding one's own needs and challenges for love can (by definition) inflict great pain and anguish on others. I'm only just coming to realise that my partner has misrepresented himself and his needs to me for years (to clarify, it was he who initiated the relationship in the beginning, with gusto!) and I feel duped. But I'm trying to channel that by assessing the extent to which he may have been duping himself (he is definitely confused and distressed about it), and ask the AS community for advice about how to broach it. If this thread is evolving into a different discussion, I'll thank you all for your time and look elsewhere.
Best wishes on each of your journeys.
clovis said:The partner has coping strategies and has worked out a functional and for the most part happy life. His answers are not the ones a neurotypical person would be happy with but they work for him. There is nothing 'wrong' with him as some posters have suggested.
The partner has coping strategies and has worked out a functional and for the most part happy life. His answers are not the ones a neurotypical person would be happy with but they work for him. There is nothing 'wrong' with him as some posters have suggested.
This is a very salient point, and I admit that I never acknowledge it as I should. This may be the legacy of leading a life in which I have, in one way or another, felt (and been made to feel) that there was something 'wrong' with me. Never being able to make or maintain friendships. Never being able to sustain relationships. Never 'getting' what everyone else seems to get. Having to struggle with situations most others take in their stride. If you're in a minority like that, it's easy to feel that you're the one not keeping up. This is the problem with living in a world designed and built for the majority.
I know otherwise now. I'm not 'wrong', just 'different'. I'm not disabled, just differently-abled.
Not rambling at all, Paul. Very sound points, thanks for your support and for taking the time to respond.
Mara said: Which takes me back again to why I posted on this forum in the first place.
Which takes me back again to why I posted on this forum in the first place.
To try to find some answers.
I think you came to the right place and I do think that Clovis may sound unfair but that might just be the choice of words. I can be very clumsy with words. Let me put it like this, you had the very best intentions in encouraging him to take the test but maybe did not consider how he might react. I, and many people here, have reacted positively to a high score because it helps us to understand ourselves and what makes us different. Maybe he did not want to know? Does that sound sensible?
Having said that I would also have encouraged him to take the test so what do I know? I think it's better to know because I now know what I'm dealing with - maybe he just needs a bit of time to come to terms with it. Like you said, there are positives in ASD that can be celebrated.
In an NT/ASD relationship, if each partner plays to their own strengths, they can make up for each other's weaknesses and together make a great team. Maybe when you do get back in touch you can gently try to guide things in this direction.
I hope my rambling helps.
Dear Clovis,
I agree with you almost entirely. One of the main reasons I wrote in is that I don't know whether his rejection of me is purely that he really doesn't love me anymore, and just doesn't want to continue in a relationship with me (for reasons other than AS), or if its because I may have done just that (stripped him of his coping strategies and left him with no support).
As I state in my first post, I don't know if he is AS, and have only recently begun to suspect that he might be. One point that is mistaken about your criticism however is that he was happy. He has spent much of his life feeling very isolated and in significant depression, struggling to equate his need for love and affection with his capacity for it. He is clearly struggling with an AS label, but I'm not. I would find any steps on his part to come to terms and even enjoy any autistic characteristics he has to be extremely positive, and would only be happier to be with him because of it.
In fact, part of my (perhaps clumsy or misguided) intention in asking him to take the test was for him to come to more fully understand himself and for us to be able to learn strategies to help him find balance, and for me to adapt more appropriately to his needs.
I explained the evolution of our courtship, so feel that the criticism that entering such a relationship is unfair, but you're right about taking a good look at myself as to why I stay in such a relationship. The answer is that that's what I'm doing, trying to understand better so that I really know what is involved. I would still choose to be together if my partner would allow it, on the basis that he takes positive steps to live more authentically. You're right that my approach may have been too confronting for him, and if so I am truly sorry for causing him pain. I can only call it "grasping at straws" since he had reached a uniquely low point of real despair, which I almost certainly made worse by my lack of knowledge about AS or his individual needs. I also intended to be there for him throughout this process, but it was his choice to suddenly evict me from the relationship. Which takes me back again to why I posted on this forum in the first place.
Thanks Pixie, this is really helpful insight. Yes, I definitely recognise many AS characteristics in myself, but I think not enough to really flag up an AS diagnosis. I did the AQ test before I showed it to my boyfriend, and I came out at 16. Many of the criteria on the link you sent did apply to me (preferring one-to-one friendships, hyper sensitive, May get stressed if have a lot of work to do in a short amount of time, May become frustrated/stressed if asked to do too many things at once) but also many others that don't, and there are some many points that would apply to most people. So in short, I've got my stuff going on, but I don't think I can call it Aspergers. In fact, it has been interesting to read that AS men tend to navigate towards women who are highly emotionally receptive to others, which I think I am.
Yes, I could email him, but my feeling is that complete non-contact would be better for now, for a week or so at least, to give him space. I'm also not sure myself what I'd say because I am very hurt. I wish that this was different, and that he was here to cuddle up right now and make me stop feeing so hurt, but he is also the cause of it, so I don't think I could say or do the right things right now.
Tom, yes thanks indeed for your well-written piece.