How do you protect yourself?

Simple question pietro_21 on a complex topic.

As you highlight avoidance is best however a hermit like existence is not a practical solution.

Violent self-defence MAY have some legitimacy however for obvious social reasons is non-sustainable both for individuals and society.  As a bit of a disclaimer here for my background I trained for many years in martial arts including being awarded 2 black belts.

So then the issue of defending ones well being from a more complex level than that of physical harm from the obvious forms of attack.

I can give my perspective upon this that I think the answer may be in exploring further too.

Seeking support from others to defend one's own well-being is an important key.

This was something of a seed-change for me to acknowledge as implicit in understanding of my own vulnerability.

Support from others I was very fortunate to have, developing this to be less necessary took a lot of tenacity and energy to do - especially since it takes time to discern who and/or what and/or when works in this respect.

I would say that before I could defend my well-being I also had to gather insight into what well-being might actually be for me - especially since I was coming from a strong sense of "unwellness" that I had lived with for many years

To get to this point required developing skills of analysing my own body for signs of health beyond those of "normal" physical health into gaining "interoception" of correlates with mental states that my body gives insight into.  This then developed into the capacity of increased self-monitoring and self regulation.

I guess what I am saying is that we need help to identify what it is we are missing and from lived experiences work towards strategies that we self generate to be "new" people.

For me it was recognising how my posture, how I breathed etc and from this how such physical frameworks correlated with my mental framework too.

This is the domain of linking the body with the mind and the emotions (and dare one say it the spirit too).  There are many therapies that explore this.  They aren't easy but by my evidence they can be learned.

I believe this helps defend well-being by establishing what it was in us that is resonant with a sense of health and personal values.

I find people who I have known who studied martial arts have a lot of discipline when it comes to emotional control. 
my issue may be forgetting the practical element and looking for a quick fix, even though I follow routines it is my own dissatisfaction at the results, or others behaviours that leads me to states like this.

I find people who I have known who studied martial arts have a lot of discipline when it comes to emotional control. 
my issue may be forgetting the practical element and looking for a quick fix, even though I follow routines it is my own dissatisfaction at the results, or others behaviours that leads me to states like this.

This is fascinating I will read it in detail later.

its called Shintaido they are doing.

Yes I like golden numbers, the strange thing about these perfect patterns though is that they also exist in almost everythink - even the mundane.

It is the one thing that seems to stand out, almost as an identifier. When I first started reading about things after diagnosis 'Special' makes it sound a bit weird.  But then I remembered things which consumed me for long periods, and still do, so really it is a passionate interest. 

I tend to look at things head on, the whole machine not just the cogs. I also do tend to see the best in people once I know them fairly well, although generally I would say if I am thinking in nt/nd terms as I am lately I don't feel nts are meeting anything like in the middle. Should I teach them my ways if all they are going to do is strip them and then carry on in the same direction? This is the sharing (if I know they are uncaring) dillema also in giving as an asd person you have to trust everyone in the group. Having a shared discipline could be helpful in this scenario, as long as there are no rogue players. I would join a group of similarly minded people but I despise banter or knowing that one person could try to derail things. I think total group harmony is a fantastic thing like a flock of starlings.

pietro_21 maybe quick fixes are often a result of a "top down" approach.  The best martial arts I have encountered explore the intersection between top down and bottom up approaches to things.  Being a very "bottom-up" thinker myself these days I have found it helpful to explore meeting in the middle!  How we perceive others behaviour and interact with it can change if we all meet in the middle more.  :-)

I reckon the special interest bit about self defence and autism comes from experiences of being different.

Then there's that long journey of self discovery as to who one actually is that one is trying to defend - especially if there is an absolute upheaval in terms of seeing oneself post diagnosis from a very different perspective... 

Instead maybe dream of sunflowers and other golden means :-)

Yep, pietro_21  :-)

hehe standing on one leg in search of enlightenment (like my leg hurts why don't I use the other one...)  or why am I holding this stick?

Lots of tribes out there - think there was a book about autism that mentioned it 

as regards looking at the number of sides - why stop at 2? 

Recently have found the Fibonacci sequence rather fab , 0, 1, 1, 2, 3, 5, 8, 13 etc

All rather lovely :-)

I am getting the feeling we landed somewhere near to a special interest. Where I live in London there are more people taking up Shinto type martial arts. Standing on one leg with a stick   I can see thats why people do this to join a group its a sort of tribal awareness.

When human beings are hard wired to think a certain way they lose awareness of so much.This is part of our struggle because we can see both sides, the normal and the diverse.

This compared with "Eastern" martial arts where:

So - in short you're right - we don't know what was deeply involved in their martial arts pre-roman - however we do know they started age 6 so the training regimen was presumably quite extensive

and

Because the Celts did not leave their own written records, what we know about pre-Roman Celtic martial arts 

comes from archaeological finds, Classical accounts (Greeks and Romans), and later oral traditions recorded in medieval sagas. 

www.roman-britain.co.uk +1

Rather than a single "style," their martial practice was a collection of techniques focused on individual prowess, ritual combat, and psychological warfare. 

1. The Philosophy of Personal Glory

Celtic combat was driven by a warrior code that prioritised individual reputation over regimented group strategy. 

Twinkl +1

• Champion Warfare: Battles often began with ritual single combat between chosen champions at river fords or between armies.
• Psychological Intimidation: Warriors used "dreadful din"—a cacophony of war-cries and the carnyx (a tall animal-headed trumpet)—to unsettle enemies before the charge.
• Apotropaic Protection: Some fought naked or painted in blue woad, a ritual act of audacity designed to show contempt for death and invoke spiritual protection. 
  Martial Arts Stack Exchange +5

2. Weapons and Technical Evidence

Archaeology shows a high degree of technical evolution in their gear, which dictated their fighting styles:

• The Longsword: Primarily a slashing weapon, often nearly a metre long. Some tribes, like the Parisii, carried these on their backs to be drawn over the shoulder.
• Spear and Javelin: Most warriors carried multiple spears (gae and gá-ín) for both throwing and thrusting. Javelins could be over 2 metres long with barbed heads designed to tear flesh upon removal.
• The Chariot: Used as a mobile platform. Warriors would drive into the fray to intimidate and throw weapons before leaping off to fight on foot while the driver stayed nearby for a quick exit.
• Shields: Large, oval or rectangular wooden shields were the primary defence. Despite their reputation for "disorder," they were known to form shield walls (which Romans called a testudo) when necessary. 
  Wikipedia +6

3. Training and Social Structure

• Elite Schools: Later Gaelic traditions mention the 
  Taigh Suntais
   (gymnasium), where young men trained in wrestling, archery, and "single-stick" from age six.
• Martial Equality: Classical authors like Tacitus and Ammianus Marcellinus noted that Celtic women were formidable fighters, often participating in battles alongside men.
• Unarmed Combat: References exist to early forms of wrestling (coraíocht) and boxing (dornálaíocht), which focused on trips, throws, and striking to prove strength during festivals and "Fair Day" contests. 
  traditionalsportsgames.org +6

Summary of Known Techniques

Category	Core Techniques	Primary Focus
Armed	Longsword slashing, spear thrusting, javelin throwing, shield bashing	Reach and mobility
Unarmed	Grappling, tripping, "scuffling"	Throwing/pinning the opponent
Tactical	Guerrilla harassment, headlong "furious" charges, chariot-leaping

Here's what google AI says about post late medieval TheCatWoman 

Yes, Western Martial Arts (WMA) and Historical European Martial Arts (HEMA) were deeply intertwined with several philosophical, social, and scientific frameworks. Unlike the often mystical or religious framing of Eastern arts, Western systems were frequently grounded in Renaissance humanism, Aristotelian logic, and chivalric codes of honour. 

Reddit +4

• Virtues: Martial practice was seen as a way to cultivate virtues like bravery, loyalty, justice, and mercy.
• Social Responsibility: Knights were expected to use their skills to protect the weak, the Church, and their lords.
• Dueling Etiquette: In the Renaissance, this evolved into a "Code of Honour" that governed private duels, emphasizing individual reputation and fairness over brute survival. 
  University of Aberdeen +3

During the Renaissance, masters began to treat fighting as a science (Scientia) rather than just a "vulgar" craft. 

Wikipedia +1

• Geometry and Physics: Systems like the Spanish La Verdadera Destreza ("The True Art") used Euclidean geometry and Aristotelian physics to explain combat as a series of mathematical circles and lines.
• Humanism: Many manuals reflect the Renaissance humanist ideal of the "Universal Man," where martial skill was one part of a well-rounded education alongside music, logic, and rhetoric. 
  Wikipedia +2

Early Western philosophy, particularly Stoicism and Neoplatonism, heavily influenced how practitioners viewed self-control and the mind-body connection. 

Reddit +1

• Self-Mastery: Martial training was a tool for Eudaimonia (human flourishing) through the development of self-discipline, patience, and calmness under pressure.
• The "Sober Mind": Ancient Hellenistic traditions emphasized a balanced individual where a "sober mind" controlled the "violent body". 
  Reddit +1

• Direct Confrontation: Techniques were often designed for efficiency in specific contexts like judicial duels or war.
• Secular Integration: Martial skills were typically treated as a practical skill or hobby separate from religion, whereas Eastern arts often blurred these lines. 
  Quora +1

I was thinking more of things like when the Romans conquered Brttain and people were disarmed, what was lost? I'm sure things like staff fighting continued and that it was fairly similar to fighting with a war spear, spears were far more common than swords.

Again, after 1066, the Normans disarmed the population, what did we lose then?

I don't think we should devalue Eastern Martial Arts, just value Western ones more. I was fascinated watching The 300, it's one of the few times I've seen Western Martial Arts goven the same cinematic treatment as Eastern ones.

Obviously fighting styles will depend on your equipment, but we know so little from before the early modern era of how Westerner's fought. 

I wonder which came first the philosophy or the fighting? Or did they evolve together, like Parcour has? Do we know what if any philosphy went with Western Martial Arts?

I understand there is some interest and practice in late medieval and renaissance martial arts based on  a few books from the period TheCatWoman .

Yes Greco-Roman wrestling may be seen as something of a continuation of the ancient arts ArchaeC 

Devaluing Eastern equivalents? Perhaps.

The arts that have their roots in Taoism are particularly interesting because they come with a philosophy that, to me anyway, goes beyond the pragmatic physical combat element of many others.

Yes, how one carries oneself does make a difference in respect of the choice bullies make about which of the socially different they choose to pick on.  Not appearing vulnerable or indeed constituting a risk to the aggressor makes a difference in this. This at a bit of a balance as one also needs to be aware of "tall poppy syndrome" where standing out too much can draw attention to aggressors too.

So much of it is socio-cultural based upon how much time one has for practice and how risky it is for the elite to have skilled warriors wandering about who might upset the status quo...

Evolution of weaponry also means many arts are lost - or perhaps tactics are kept but shift in the means of their expression.

So, on a lighter note - Morris Dancing?  Hehe the evolution of stick defence?

TheCatWoman said:

One of the things I'd love to know is what Western martial arts have we lost? We must have had them, even quarter staff fighting, why do we devalue that but value the Eastern equalvents?

Does Ancient Greek and Roman wrestling and fighting count? 

Renaissance art scenes illustrate fighting with swords and poles. I did fencing at school and it remains popular in some places. I found it invaluable in helping my posture as I used to try to ‘shrink away’ at school.

He did at first when he was practicing, but when he stopped he became child like, but I think there were far more complex issues going on.

I did bits a pieces of martial arts for a few years, I wanted to learn to defend myself and never be a mans punch bag ever again, it was part of the healing journey for me. I've never had to use the skills I learnt, thankfully, I think peope who've done martial arts often project a sort of confidence that makes others think your more trouble that it's worth to bother you.

One of the things I'd love to know is what Western martial arts have we lost? We must have had them, even quarter staff fighting, why do we devalue that but value the Eastern equalvents?

scuse the 1/2 jokey question TheCatWoman did he come across as well adjusted?  :-)  Notwithstanding the possibility of "fake it 'til you make it" what lies underneath people's facade when we get underneath immediate impressions can be interesting to say the least...  same for many tai chi exponents in my experience!

It can be, my ex husband did it as both a meditative exercise and as a martial art.

TheCatWoman said:

can come across as well adjusted

hehehehehe :-) tai chi can be a very good martial art too ;-)

I think maybe we need to redefine our relationship to the word DISCIPLINE, its not crime and punishment, well it can be, but it's more about training yourself into good habits, which is why people who've studied martial arts can come across as well adjusted, partly its having an outlet for negative emotions, theres nothing quite like a session with a punch bag or kick pads for releasing tension and partly it's because I think it teaches you to see the insecurities and weakness of others and of course knowing you can physically defend yourself helps too.

Yoga or tai chi are disciplines, study is a discipline, music is too, it's anything that you set aside time for, regualarly and don't allow to be disrupted.