Comments from co-workers

That’s great how you describe it actually - I think workplace coaching would be a good idea - I’m going to look into that 

kiwipip said:

I don’t actually over think

If you look at it from their perspective:

1 - you don't just "get it" - you have to put thought into it and try to work it out, sometimes getting it wrong. An NT doesn't need to think like this.

2 - if you are asking then you probably did a lot of processing and have a number of things you think it is and if this comes up in the explanation they will think "wow, you put way too much thought into this".

This is why they came to the conclusion which is quite valid - from their perspective.

They obviously don't understand autism and how we process unknowns.

Well that’s the other thing, I don’t actually over think…. I think people just use terminology against me in an attempt at manipulation 

kiwipip said:

That’s a good idea actually having a coach

Ideally they should be trained as a coach as there are ways of them asking you questions that lead you to answer them yourself, thus teaching you how to do it yourself in the long run.

They also don't need specific knowledge of your team as they are working with you on yourself, not your job as such. It helps us get our of the rabbit holes we all to often think ourslves into.

That’s a good idea actually having a coach removed from the office politics it may be something I need more 

pietro_21 said:

Lack of awareness of the level of corporate and legal manipulation is one of the biggest injustices

But it is as old as employment. Favoured employees can get away with loads of things that would get others dismissed. Mates get promoted over mere minions. This is the way.

I find that it helps to understand the system and work within it as best I can - make friends with managers or those with influence and you get promoted.

Fairness if subjective and there is always bias. Hating it won't stop it, calling it out will just lead to you getting targetted as a troublemaker and not playing by the "rules" of this will just leave you out in the cold at best.

If you can change your mindset from resentment to acceptance and using the "rules" then it gets way easier in life.

A lot of the time if it’s just a comment based on the situation I’m fine with that and personally quite often ignore it. If it makes its way through a twisty grapevine as criticism I don’t think that’s ok 

When it comes with an instruction that I am plain wrong and need to change and am childish for needing time out socially and time to myself, also when it comes with a ultimatum or a controlling narrative or when it comes with anger and shutting me out (control again) or when “I am bothering other people because I look like a child in the way I position myself or something” I think that’s a direct criticism when I’m being inoffensive 

kiwipip said:

I think I’m also more sensitive about comments these days such as calling me childish because I do things in a certain way

Can I ask how you are going about learning how to interprit the comments so you can understand what is actually meant?

It is a common issue for autsts to miss socual cues, get things wrong or take offence at innocent comments - all because we lack a knowedge of the social rules that eveyone else seems to understand.

I went through a stage of this and you soon get to see when someone is just venting, when a comment is a sign of thier frustration rather than an attack and where I just miss the mark completely.

The first thing is to make a note of these comments when they happen. Capture the context around them and find an NT who you trust and ask them how they understand it. Learn from it and over time you build up a better understanding of what is going on.

You can ask the HT team if they have either coaches or mentors available to help you with the people management skills here. I found a coach was the best thing as they were quite removed from my offices politics and I had to explain the full context which made me have to analise it first - and most of the time I had the answer by the time I finished explaining it.

Just a thought.

Probably. If I did work for a company I would most like keep quiet.

I understand exactly where your'e coming from and I don't want you to think I am loudly vocal, I have never done anything wrong, but I have seen a lot of harm done in the workplace and had people do wrong towards me in order to forward their career in some cases. Noone blinked and eyelid. The same move taken by myself would have meant dismissal. 

Lack of awareness of the level of corporate and legal manipulation is one of the biggest injustices - is just that most people don't stop to think about it. They act as if they are dependent on companies and cooworkers for a living, this is over the line because someone else is taking autonomy over your livelyhood which in some cases veers into the exploitative. Albeit only softly exploitative.

My main concern is that there are no independent bodies who protect people if they make a about a system or their treatment by an employer.  

I don't understand what 'fair' means, as it means nothing at all in business terminology.  Accept 'trust me' I am going to manipulate and exploit you anyway.

Well last time it happened to me I collected the evidence and witness and got the support I needed. I kept my job and the management was changed, however I chose to leave as I felt like it had been left to long by then I had been caused severe distress. This job is going well so far but I don’t want to repeat the same mistakes and allow things to escalate when they can be dealt with nicely for all parties and understanding. The team so far is nice and supportive but there have just been a few comments and reports that I don’t think people would make if they knew and I’m not sure I want to be treated differently or open things up to becoming worse and people seeing weak spots (trauma from my previous experience) or invalidating my opinion because they think I don’t understand what people mean—- gaslighting - which happened ALOT to me previously when I declared. I think I’m also more sensitive about comments these days such as calling me childish because I do things in a certain way

pietro_21 said:

Yes,100%, I am not going to join them when I can beat them. 

This will sabotage your chances of keeping your job every time. So long as you are aware of the price of this rigid rule following then go for it, but if you want to keep your job then you need to learn that rules are routinely bent and broken almost everywhere.

pietro_21 said:

Part of the problem with work is not everyone follows procedures.

This is true yet the business continues to function. Procedures are guidelines, not hard and fast rules.

pietro_21 said:

There are so many people in safe jobs working as a team to force decent people out, in order to keep the complicit system alive.  

You know how the system works. You fight it and loose. The system continues to exist unchanged. What can you learn from this?

Life is fundamentally unfair, systems are inherrently corrupt and if you ruffle others feathers then expect to get pecked.

Your decision is therefore simple. Keep doing what you do and you will keep getting kicked out. Learn the system, work within it to slowly improve it and that is about as much as you can ever hope to do in life.

It sucks but this is reality. You can now make an informed decision.

Yes,100%, I am not going to join them when I can beat them. 

Reasons - the law, freedom of conscience, not to be intimidated or manipulated, not to have truth or trust exploited, not to allow intelligence and intelligent people to be surpressed. 

Part of the problem with work is not everyone follows procedures. There are people who will never behave or will always undermine systems. This is to some extent never fully disallowed or protected against. Often policies and workplace laws only act as a disclaimer to say that they did things in the best knowledge. Not in the interest say of someone employed under an equal opportunities scheme.

They could be much better companies, athentically pursuing missions. instead we have a lot of slovenly people doing the minimum they can possible. This affects the performance of entire industries, whereby the overall performance becomes mediocre and accepted as normality.  There are so many people in safe jobs working as a team to force decent people out, in order to keep the complicit system alive.  

Rant over. ;

kiwipip said:

I think im probably more wary and wonder how best to approach this because of how I was treated in the past and when I tried to get support was confronted with a group effort to terminate me instead.

This is a very common experience for autists I'm afraid - I've been at the receiving end of it too.

Once I realised it was happening I built a portfolio of proof so that when it came the the manager trying to raise a disciplinary process against me for not being a "team player" then I brought my witness, laid out some of the proof and told them I intend to sue the company for harrassment.

2 days later I was offered a very large redundancy payment with 3 months paid leave. By that time I already had another job lined up which made it all the sweeter.

Once it starts getting to the point you are at now then I think it best to plan to change jobs, build proof to make a case against them and start job hunting. It rarely improves from this point from what I and many others on here have experienced.

Use your spare time to learn better coping skills (ie get a therapist) and work on updating your qualifications so you can get a better job.

Thanks for the advice that’s really helpful. I think I have good senior management who help navigate a better culture but I think im probably more wary and wonder how best to approach this because of how I was treated in the past and when I tried to get support was confronted with a group effort to terminate me instead. I’m quite a calm and supportive person and am good at managing stress (well visibly) I think that sort of training course is a great suggestion. Do you know where I could find something like that? 

pietro_21 said:

I have been a whistleblower twice and have both times been burned.

Would you do it a third time if you saw something out of place?

kiwipip said:

I think if I made comments like that to any of my colleagues I would possibly be reported for bullying and marginalising behaviour, however it doesn’t seem to work the other way around. 

If you think this is how the rules work then report them. The rules work for all - just make sure you either have a recording or witness.

kiwipip said:

I don’t want to disclose to my co-workers that I have autism

If you don't disclose then you have little chance of making a complaint later about them discriminating on you because of your autistic traits. It is a double edged sword as you point out.

By internalising it you are making it more damaging I think - my approach would be to get an assertiveness training course and start standing up for yourself - it will be a shock for your colleagues but so long as you are in the right (as far as the rules go) then they can just suck it up.

If your manager is not aware of the autism then they cannot help. You can ask for discretion when you submit the notification to HR and your manager and make sure you detail what the "reasonable adjustments" are that you need.

I would note that asking the whole team to be clear in their interactions will not work as they are going to be too entrenched in their ways to be willing to change. At best you can ask for things like headphones, better lighting, maybe a better chair and a set routine.

The team issues require a smart and compassionate manager to change the culture slowly. I don't know if your manager is this sort of person.

Unfortunately the work environment in this era is one not well suited to us when in teams but learning to advocate for yourself in a great tool to have available.

What I realised is my guard is down to some extent. The team depend on each other, but when singled out can rarely think on their own initiative. At some point in history this way of thinking in a homogenous must have been advantagous to survival. Neurodiverse thinking might have cast you out or called a witch.  Do not go against the team or speak ill of anyone who manages the team or you will not be in the team for long. I have been a whistleblower twice and have both times been burned.