Why Did Number Leave This Place?

Thanks mate.

Well - I suppose......

I only raised my head above the parapet because I had spotted two things that defied my sense of fairness and logic in this place, and had felt compelled to speak;

1. Unwarranted and unexplained "closure" of a horny (oh sorry - I meant thorny obviously....honest) thread.

2. (Allegedly pre-sanctioned) character assassination of another member of this COMMUNITY here with the adroit use of AI expertise.

I don't think I have remaining cause to endlessly tap away in this place.

I am pleased that point 1 has been resolved to everyone's satisfaction, and I am sanguine about point 2 now that I have been permitted to air my perspective, confusion and distaste over the "decision making" surrounding that matter.

It has been nice to say a brief hi to everyone too.....but this place can be a MASSIVE time sink......and I don't want to get sucked down the plughole into a smelly drain!

Send my love to Shadow.

Warmest regards

Number.

I never want you to shut up Number, you always make smile

Its an interesting perspective.

If Freud had passed judgement it might be seen as fact.

If an AI extract is posted it might be seen as opinion.

The first would seem problematic, the second as freedom of speech. 

I was and still am inclined to view it as opinion, albeit overly defensive and somewhat personal, and let it go.

It seemed there was more backstory than I could be bothered with and fairly clearly there was what might be called a personality clash. 

I dislike rules, but I'm not OK with conflict, although I do believe in a public forum there should be rules on what can and can't be said, I just think that here they're often interpreted to strictly. We are adults and we need to talk about adult things just as much as on any other fora, but from our ND view point. We should be allowed to disagree and not to agree because we don't actually have an opinion yet. I find the words that get blocked irritating, I had one recently when talking about the words used by someone else to my daughter and I, it was a nasty word, used in a nasty context, but I'm unsure if censorship in this instance was needed.

Thanks Sharon for popping up here and seeking constructive queries and questions from us.

Now that I have been safely cleared of a charge of writing a "offensive" post, in another thread, I really must ask you, and anyone else here, a question that is REALLY, bothering me.  I just can't shake it, and wonder if I am going mad here.....because nobody else seems to be querying a logic that (apparently) is "just fine.....nothing to see here" type thing......but that simply defies all sense of reasonableness, fairness and logic to me.

I have a scenario in mind, where I have a very good friend who is the pre-eminent authority in his field of Psycho-Analysis of  Autistic People (lets call him Freud,) and a fellow community member here, (lets call him Roger) who I am fascinated by, because he is so different to me.

Now if I had asked Freud to have a look at a few select extracts from this place, to offer his opinion on Roger, and was given a formal report on Roger, would I then be allowed to post something like this about him;

- - -

Hey everyone, I got my good friend Freud, to make an assessment of one of our other members here, Roger......and I thought it would be important for my mental well being, to just share with the group, these things that he has pointed out to me about Roger.

Freud said that Roger can be characterised in the following way;

Repeatedly misrepresents sources including his own.

Ignores counter-evidence.

Introduces gender and politicised language

Is observed to be cognitively rigid

Doesn't update views when shown contradictory evidence

Uses anecdote over evidence

Introduces inflammatory labels

Makes it hard to engage constructively,

Doesn't show willingness to engage with reliable sources

Doesn't consider alternative views in good faith

Makes personal assumptions

Demonstrates recognisable DARVO patterns of behaviour

Dismisses or re frames clear factual corrections

Continually asserts points contradicted by mainstream sources

Questions the motives of others, suggesting misandry, ideological agendas or condescension

Doesn't address substantive points

Frequently portrays himself as a wronged party

Avoids responsibility for his own misrepresentations or inflammatory framing.

So anyway, I just thought this might help Roger in the future, to see all these things written about him here, and I hope he will improve as a human autist soon.

Tatty bye.

- - -

Now Sharon.........SURELY......the above would not be allowed to be written about another member of our community here - by me - no matter how pre-eminent my mate Freud is (in my opinion) and no matter how much I felt the need to post this sort of character assassination, for my own mental well being?  I'm not wholly sure which particular rules it would break, here, but SURELY it would break some of them?  And perhaps more importantly.....SURELY everyone would object to my behaviour in this scenario?

Rest assured, I'm not being "cute" here - this is a FOUNDATIONAL query to my understanding of what is allowed, and what is not in this place?  Would it make a difference if I sent a copy of Freud's report to the MODS first for pre-approval of Freud's credentials?

If you can manage a response to this directly, I would sincerely be grateful - and genuinely - for my mental well being!  I think I am going mad?!?!

Thank you in advance Sharon.

Kind regards

Number

Sorry you are disgusted Number. 

It took me a while to digest the relevant information as I haven’t been here since last week.  I am shocked and saddened that some posts and the moderator’s actions have lead to your reaction and to other’s responses, and I don’t like anyone to feel they have been forced out or don’t belong here.

You haven’t left this forum completely and change can only come from within rather than without. Diversity leads to the creation of ideas and that is a good thing. I mightn’t always agree with you and with others here, but that doesn’t lessen the value of you and others as persons. 

Sharon Mod said:

We also welcome constructive suggestions on how we can improve, not just about the rules, but in how we communicate and support users.

Hello Sharon, there is a poll on this very subject here:  censorship, locking of threads and freedom of expression 

Once it has time to accumulate enough votes can you raise it in your next management meeting and consider the views expressed there please?

Thank you

Thank you. Sorry if I overreacted, blame my EUPD there

Hi Elfilis, 
It's not your fault at all! You did not ask us to lock the thread.

We are glad you are here, welcome your contributions so far and look forward to your future posts. 
I can see from the responses from other users that they also agree that you are not to blame.

All the best

Sharon Mod 

Honestly I think I’m the one to blame as I asked you guys to remove the contents I had posted so please don’t feel it’s the teams fault, it’s mine. I do want to thank you for removing my comments though and I personally didn’t see an issue with the post being locked. I am still fairly new to this though 

Hi everyone,

Thank you for your post, Number, and to others who have contributed to this discussion. I've read your posts and the replies, and I am grateful for the discussion and the points raised.

At all times, the moderation team is trying to optimise the Online Community to suit users, but of course, we make mistakes and sometimes take action that is not as helpful as we’d hoped. We are always open to feedback about our moderation decisions.

The Online Community exists to give autistic people and family members a respectful and safe place to share experiences, seek and give support, and ask questions, including on complex or sensitive topics. The rules are in place to protect this place but we recognise that how we apply those rules matters. If a thread is locked or removed, it should be for a clear reason, and we should be transparent about that. If that hasn’t been your experience, we sincerely apologise.

We are reviewing the moderation of the thread you mentioned and will reflect on whether we handled correctly. We also welcome constructive suggestions on how we can improve, not just about the rules, but in how we communicate and support users.

Thank you again for raising your concerns.
Sharon Mod

The member who raised it with the MODS (but defo didn't get it locked.....only MODS have that power) was kind enough to come here and explain soon after this thread went live......you'll see towards the bottom of this thread.

I CERTAINLY don't have any problem with them raising concerns to the MODS - if they feel they want to - so I wholly support them in that, and they have my respect for coming here to explain clearly their position.  It all sounds perfectly reasonable to me - fwiw.

The last thing we should want to see when talking about this stuff, is a witch hunt.

I only seek clarification of how rules are being applied and what we should/could/want to expect from this place in terms of safety to express our own personal views and start threads as we see fit...and what "safety" from attack or "lock-out" we might reasonably expect, if we abide by the rules.

I agree A and Number, I think there must be a point at our rights to discuss freely things must outweigh the rights of others not to be triggered, afterall there's a very easy solution to there being a thread you find upsetting, don't look at it.

I'm really beginging to wonder if "triggering" isn't past its best, its used so widely to describe something that people dislike or find uncomfortable and away from it's previous use as something that would cause extreme psychological discomfort.

I know it's not going to happen, but I'd really like to know who those people are who got the thread shut and what their reasoning was? I often feel theres somekind of undercurrent here about shutting some subjects down and although I have my suspcions about the who and the why I have no proof and don't want to start off a massive spat. 

Thank you.

But to think.....how things evolve?!  It wasn't long ago that I was trying to mollify and de-amplify matters such as these between the more "fire-brand" types amongst our ranks.....praying just to get back to talk about borage, squirrels, water bears, bees, planes, trains and......pornography?!  LOL.

I have a feeling that some here won't like the matters I have aired for discussion....so your kindness is acknowledged, with thanks again,

Yes....I agree that there are many different reasonable ways to entitle a thread.  I those to actually raise one on these matters, and chose to entitle it as above.  Your points on the merits (or otherwise) of that title are wholly reasonable - as I hope you can agree - was my choice to use the one it has.

I also agree that various peoples interpretation of how a "principled stand" is best made, will vary - but this thread is not "that".......it is an invitation for discussion......so I thank you for your participation and making your wholly valid and fair observations.

I'm not uncomfortable at all, I like your posting style

Thank you Lotus

Thanks - sorry if I'm making good people "feel uncomfortable" with all this chatter......but I felt physically sick when I saw what had been "done" to another member here.....and felt compelled to raise my head, and call foul.  FYI - I would have done so for ANYONE who had been subjected to that kind of treatment.

As you know mate, I had reached the same conclusion, and had "excluded myself" for the same reason of not wanting to ruin/rock the boat for other users who remain active here.

However......

...... when I saw the (what I perceive as a open character assassination) towards another very long standing member on here......without anyone standing up to call foul......I found myself compelled to type a response......because I felt sure that something NEEDED to be said.....for my own sanity and my sense of solidarity for ANYONE HERE who finds their own thoughts and writings so summarily and "unpleasantly" torn to pieces in open forum.....with alleged MOD pre-approval!?

That lead me to see.......

......a few messages of kindness, and comments of support and warmth towards my sentiment......and then I saw that other thread locked, and explanation for that locking.....(and recalled all those "tricky and inevitably nuanced" same discussions on that horny issue we have both witnessed here over the years)......and thought that, at this moment in time, if even the ever-evolving rules here can't be relied up.....then anyone who needs or wants to discuss their thoughts and issues on here safely - can't do so.

Accordingly, I started this thread to prompt a discussion on these matters, that I consider FOUNDATIONAL for an autistic COMMUNITY forum.

I don't claim any righteousness nor think I am right on any of the matters that I raise for discussion here......because that is not how I'm wired.....but I do observe, analyse and process the world around me, as I find it, and write and speak how I feel it is appropriate to do so....just as everyone else here, hopefully, feels able and safe to do.

As you know, I like a quiet ship.......but also think that "reasonableness" and "common-sense fairness" is being openly thrown under the bus?!  It is inevitable (and I knew when I started this thread).....that I will now potentially (or inevitably, from some quarters) be seen as the one who is "starting trouble."

All I do is speak as I see, ask questions and invite discussion - hopefully whilst maintaining respect to all - but apologies to all, if the consensus opinion is that I should return my thoughts and energies to elsewhere.......something I will most probably do....although the more quiet and nervous voices perhaps occasionally need support here too?

Good to see you again....stuck in this machine with me = less lonely for me with you here......even if you want me to shut up!

Be well A.

Good to see you posting again, A.

We have not always seen things the same way, but I respect your right to your opinions and I don't like seeing people leave.