Question about masking and etiquette / politeness

When I communicate with people I can be myself around and vice versa that is when I don't mask or don't care to mask. When i am around people who it feels unsafe to be myself atound, I don't act like anyone else but I tone a lot down

Yes, it's a cultural tradition. So have been certain religions in the UK, or even regions of England. We don't criticise those who celebrate different cultural festivals, or even those who simply don't engage with religion at all. Frankly the anthropology of it all is - at best - on shaky ground when one looks at the interface between cultural differences.

My point wasn't the act of giving/receiving gifts itself. My point was that if one's beliefs are different then it is the respect of the individual belief systems that become more important that the social dogma. The respect is a two way street. I won't and don't criticise anyone for taking a position or opinion on where you place the importance. My opinion is placed upon the side of respecting the individuals stance and beliefs on gift giving rather than social convention due to my own biases. Yours may be different and I do recognise that as valid.

I base this opinion on years of having tried to force myself to fit into the social convention and it having obliterated my ability to function, work, and even do day to day things. As I say, the benefits of 'fitting in' and going along with social convention does not for me work. For others, I'm sure it is - something which I entirely respect.

Frankly, bringing the law into a conversation on social convention is a false equivalency. Especially, when your response has been received on my end as a simple statement about why I am incorrect. While, yes, laws are socially created they are codified, debated, and written in publicly accessible forums. There are also mechanisms by which laws can be changed or influenced by large scale public opinion. There are no statute books for social interactions. I could continue and pull on any number of published thesis (I read academic research for pleasure), but let us instead agree that we see things in different ways.

ANY post, citing Temple G, gets a massive THUMBS UP from me.  If I could vote for a "queen of me", she would be mine! (most especially BECAUSE she would HATE that personalised accolade from me!)  Class!!

There's a lot packed into a dialogue, discussion or even an argument but I've found over the years to ask myself why I need to defend a thing. Have I been falsely accused? Will it cause harm to another party? What kind of relationship do I have with this other person and does it matter.

All humans have a drive toward resolution. It's just that if Freud was right (and Lacan and Jung and Fromm and so on), then the Typical method of 'resolution' is by fixing something other than the actual problem as part of Sublimation, learned through Typical communication. This includes the use of implied and unspoken elements deemed more 'civilised', and here's where one line of difference is, How we engage and convey a thing. What tends to be autistic is our spelling everything out, being overt, plainly stating what we are implying rather than intentionally hiding a thing for a bit of mystery and social dominance.

We can all be controlling, make unreasonable demands, mis-perceive a thing, be cruel. These are human items one can consciously begin to discipline, which is where I think Autistic thinking might come in useful. It's emotionally taxing, but I think we might be more open.

Intentionally hiding a thing can be a task of working out two things. One, what's priority or important. And two. if the other is projecting or if their perception and belief is abusive toward you or someone you love / care for. If the hill you're willing to die on is to protect another or about danger. I've had to learn to start writing things down, consolidating information or even the extremely painful of allowing the other the repercussions of their actions. 

We tend to feel things more intensely. Do I need to protect the other from the intensity of my reactions? That's not "masking". I do catch myself and have a laugh. But I also don't allow a**oles in my circle.  Do I need to step away from a discussion and write down my thoughts or I'll raze the other to an ash and cinder? That's not masking, just being responsible.  :) 

martintheactor said:

I hate birthdays and christmas and always have. I'll put endless effort into looking for gifts for people important to me,

Do you understand why people buy gifts for one another though?

It is an ancient cultural tradition that has 3 element, the giving, the receiving and the reciprocation.

The first act of giving establishes the virtues of the gift giver. They express their generosity, kindness and honor.

The act of receiving the gift, in turn, shows a person’s willingness to be honored. This is a way for the receiver to show their own generosity, that they are willing to accept what was offered to them.

The third component of gift giving is reciprocity, returning in kind what was first given. Essentially, the person who received the gift is now expected – implicitly or explicitly – to give a gift back to the original giver.

(taken from  https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/why-do-we-give-gifts-an-anthropologist-explains-this-ancient-human-behavior/ )

Now you know the reason and the rules, it is like driving. You know what the colours of a traffic light represent and you drive respecting these because it is in the hightway code.

Do you choose to disagree and don't stop on red because you don't want to? No - and the refusal to participate in the gifting cycle is a bit like that - you are disrespecting those who are honouring you with gifts.

It is still a valid choice but I though you may appreciate the understanding of why people include you in it and what it means to refuse it.

I see myself in a lot of what you've said. I'm only a few years older than you, but have just been my authentic self for many years now. My friends are long standing and aware of my differences (as well as my diagnosis)

Masking is something I do in very few situations. I too get frustrated by Christmas, the many social 'rules of engagement' and any inauthenticity/dishonesty (but for a few rare situations)

In recent times I've simply found social interactions very tiring (resulting in a series of minor burnouts rather than one big one). Part of my job is to travel quite a lot with work colleagues. They are great people but they don't know I'm autistic and they would have no idea about things like 'The Double Empathy Problem', for example. Just lately they've commented on how I tend to sleep a lot during travel. It's because I can only manage a certain amount of interaction with them before I literally nod off. I guess this is masking on my part but I'm not really sure how else I can concentrate on conversations and respond usefully. I find myself having to listen very carefully then choose my words in response with precision. It's very frustrating.

But to pick up on one of the points above: Christmas cards. Why? I've never understood them. You either see people regularly all year or you never see them at all then once a year you are kind of compelled to send a piece of card with your signature on to them. It's never made sense to me but I guess that kind of rather brutal logic is what gets us labelled as rude or aloof.

This is, of course, only my experience but pre diagnosis I have always for most of my adult life seen my blunt honesty as just that. My worldview had been that people run around being openly dishonest with no real reason to lie. I've always valued people willing to hear honesty and honest opinions without the baggage of 'oh but that isn't very nice'.

My family honestly were some of the ones most impacted by this - I hate birthdays and christmas and always have. I'll put endless effort into looking for gifts for people important to me, but beyond giving a gift I don't want to receive gifts, nor do I want to engage in any celebrations. Despite this you still get family members claiming 'its the thought that counts' when they've put no thought into the purchase of a gift that was just a waste of money. Then they get all offended when I tell them as such. To me, this all make logical sense. It's all obvious. That said I'm aware that to other people it comes across as rude without a diplomatic phrasing. Over time my go-to became 'I don't like Christmas and Birthdays, save your money and spend it instead on something bigger for someone more important like my siblings'.

I've done this in so much more of my life too in different ways though. And like you I will have done more research on most matters I'm willing to converse about that I'll know that I'm most likely correct. Despite this, people don't want to hear it. Instead preferring to trust more in what feels correct to them. 

I turned 39 in the last week and was diagnosed a little over a month ago. My viewpoint now is honestly - to hell with it. Masking brought burnout, which thankfully brought with it the assessment for and diagnosis of autism. I don't care any more if people see me as rude. I genuinely don't think that I can afford to mask up any more. Not if burnout is the cost of masking. 

For additional context, I masked very heavily after the lockdowns lifted. Having lost my job, I was solely focused on working toward moving in with and getting married to my fiancee. So, I began to try doing all the 'normal' and 'sensible' things. For that I received more frequent anxiety attacks, pretty heavy depression and fatigue. It all started bubbling and building under the surface until I got covid. Which was like being forced to stop everything. I hit a metaphorical wall and came to a total stop. That was nearly three years ago now. I am only just beginning to feel like I understand what caused me to burnout so severely.

So I say again - for me - if burnout is the cost, then masking is not worth it to me. The world and people in it can either accept me or not.

Samuel50 said:

where the line is between masking autistic traits and just being seen to be a bit more reasonable

You normally work this out by observing the behaviour of others and analyse their behaviour using your very thorough mind.

If you can turn it into a special interest it gets so much easier to do.

You can also read a bit about it although it probably won't give you the granular detail you are adter - this is a good guide:

The Unwritten Rules of Social Relationships - Decoding Social Mysteries Through the Unique Perspectives of Autism - Temple Grandin, Sean Barron (2005)
ISBN: 9781941765388

So through a mix of education and observation you should be able to see what is expected, but the hard part is recalling it when you need it - this takes practice and a lot of patience.

To move seamlessly through social groups does require masking as you have seen - it take practice to know when to let this relax and be more authentic and I found the best way was to only do it around people who understand and accept me. This is a small group so I choose not to socialise too much if I can help it just because it takes so much energy.

I found being authentic all the time just gets you socially exiled which is a bit more permanent than choosing when to participate.