Why is Autism considerd a disorder?

Some good points Iain, particularly about primitive fabrics and the whims of draconian leaders, although I believe that many neurotypical people don't like change much either.

Although we can find conflicting pressures difficult, actually many autistic people can do well in an emergency situation when details need to be focussed on and assessed.

I learned knitting and cooking from my mother and my husband learned fishing and game shooting from his father & his grandfather ( who was a gamekeeper This learning was more rewarding and less stressful than school.

But yes, a society with no stress sounds great.

Put me in the woods in a remote place with just the dog and I'm at home, especially in the dark without a torch and barely any light, I notice things even he doesn't, (he's a working spaniel so he's pretty sharp) I usually spot the pheasant or other animal he's looking for well before he does and we both stop and look at the same slight sounds that mean someone or something is close. I can feel that it's about to rain well before it does, sensing difference in temperature and wind that others just don't take notice of.

Put me in society and all those senses and instincts work against me.i notice everything, every sound is a trigger to defences, every social signal I completely miss or miss understand.

It's obvious where I was "designed to be".

I do however like being social and in amongst the herd, it's just so hard!

I think we would just find the isses were different:

Lotus said:

Sensory issues - would these be a problem if we lived in a more primitive way amongst the sounds of nature? With clothes made from soft cotton or furs and no stitched on tags?

Most primitive fabrics are quite coarse, probably badly fitting and lacking in modern washing techniques to make them feel softened or even that well cleaned.

Lotus said:

Trouble socialising - would that exist if we lived in extended family groups or tribes where we felt secure and could contribute with our specialist skills - maybe pottery making or animal tracking?

I think you would find quite different stressers there - tribal leaders often were more draconian in their implementation of their rules which were subject to their whims. This lack of certainty would be a challenge.

Smaller groups would require the constituents to perform a wider range of tasks and adapt to the demands of the hour, the lack of consistency and need to perform under pressure would also suck.

Lotus said:

Trouble with executive function - is that due to the stresses of modern society and having to remember so much stuff like passwords?

You would need to know how to take a pile of wool and make it into a dress for example, how to take a fish, clean  gut it, season and cook it and not kill people with food poisoning along the way, how to mend a hole in the roof or set a broken bone in a childs leg  - the lack of specialists to do some of these tasks means you would have to be able to cope with them often alone.

I don't think it would make for any sort of utopia - just different stuff that we would soon enough run into problems with.

Maybe we could like in a world where AI does all the hard work in conjunction with robots and we get to live a life of stres free relaxaton. What could be better?

I understand that an autism diagnosis is only given when a person is considered to be disabled by their autistic traits, so I looked up the definition of disabled.

A disability according to the UK equality act is an impairment that has a long term adverse effect on your ability to do normal day to day activities. It doesn't have to stop you doing things completely, just makes them harder - for example if someone cannot go to the shops alone or has problems socialising. 

People who have type 1 insulin dependent diabetes are considered disabled, because they cannot live healthy lives without insulin. Modern society doesn't make them disabled. But I feel that most of the disability experienced by autistic people is caused by society disabling them.

For example:

Sensory issues - would these be a problem if we lived in a more primitive way amongst the sounds of nature? With clothes made from soft cotton or furs and no stitched on tags?

Trouble socialising - would that exist if we lived in extended family groups or tribes where we felt secure and could contribute with our specialist skills - maybe pottery making or animal tracking?

Trouble with executive function - is that due to the stresses of modern society and having to remember so much stuff like passwords?

Trouble going to the shops alone - in a primitive society there were no shops and everyone went to places in groups for security.

Any other ideas?

Since neurodiversity is considered to be genetic in origin, I wonder if there are large parts of the worlds population that have very low instances of it (ie it isn't a big part of their gene pool).

The diagnostic criteria are also going to fail where cultural norms mean they are not considered an issue.

For example in some cultures making eye contact with a superior is seen as offensive or defiant so the cultural norm for those lower down societies scale would be to avoid it.

Some cultures consider solitude and lack of social activity to be fine, especially in sparsely populated places.

So in many cultures some of the traits which would be part of a diagnosis are just good manners.

I think I may go do some diffing on the distribution of neurodiversity across different population groups now - new special interest unlocked...

Good post Cat. I like the dogs/cats analogy as I've often felt that most people are like pack animals whereas I've always felt a bit more like a loner. 

Because we're cats living in a world set up and run by dogs. What I mean by that, isn't that we're a different species, although we may often feel we are and the world often treats us as though we are, but that NT's seem to want to herd us into being like them and punish us for not being so.

I wonder if the world was always this split? It's easy to think life was simpler and more top down rules based than now, but I think that's an oversimplification. I wonder if there were/are societies where ASD etc are less common, not because of lack of diagnostics but because it wasn't seen as a problem, except at the extreme disability end?

I also wonder how much the preferences for "disorder" over "condition" are moral ones? Is it a hangover from ideas of some kind of divine punishment being manisfested as some kind of disability? This was quite common in mediaeval Christianity, to see any disability as punishment for sinful parents. I think it's quite common in Hinduism too to see such things as karmic.

In my case none of these are heightened by stress. 
I would have died in nature from not recognising I'm thirsty to the point of passing out from dehydration, or from not recognising I was too hot and getting to shade and getting heat stroke, both of which I have done in the last 3 years. 

It sucks, but it's an innate body issue not a surroundings issue. 

Sadly it's a disorder when measured against a "typical" or an average "state.

but you can kind of see why given a large population that has unconsciously divided itself into "typical" and "not".

The universe by it's very nature does this, apply gravity and eventually you'll see certain types of things grouped together, the largest groups seen as more common and the smaller as not.

I try not to take it personally, it's more the way people view and treat the minorities that annoys me.  

If you have a box of " normal" maltesers and there happens to be a white chocolate one in there, it's an anomaly, it's the odd one out, but I really prefer them so I'd be chuffed to have found it!

I struggle with identical things. And I'm not saying you are wrong, just my opinion that is the bowel issues are heightened by stress which is usually societal in its origin, 20 TV channels...is obviously not akin to our natural state... I also struggle with complex tasks, but this is massively amplified by the amount of distractions I face daily.

I suspect, were we to be born into an indigenous tribe in nature somewhere, the things we struggle with in civilisation today, might be of benefit for hunting, tracking, or sensorially beneficial in other ways.

We live in a way that is at odds with how we have evolved. Im sure this sounds a bit far fetched, but I see the abundance of neurodiversity today as being nature's way of redressing the balance that society lacks in the modern world.

But just my view of course

I struggle with identical things. And I'm not saying you are wrong, just my opinion that is the bowel issues are heightened by stress which is usually societal in its origin, 20 TV channels...is obviously not akin to our natural state... I also struggle with complex tasks, but this is massively amplified by the amount of distractions I face daily.

I suspect, were we to be born into an indigenous tribe in nature somewhere, the things we struggle with in civilisation today, might be of benefit for hunting, tracking, or sensorially beneficial in other ways.

We live in a way that is at odds with how we have evolved. Im sure this sounds a bit far fetched, but I see the abundance of neurodiversity today as being nature's way of redressing the balance that society lacks in the modern world.

I prefer to see it as a condition rather than a disorder because disorder to me sounds like doesn't work. Yes there are some areas of my autism that may be an advantage to me but there are many that make life very difficult. So overall no I wouldn't see it is an advantage and I don't think it'd be a good idea for it to be termed that way as then people wouldn't see the need to provide support etc.

My difficulty prioritising when it comes to multistep tasks,times when it's like 20 TV channels are on at the same time- each showing a different programme, interoception issues re hunger and thirst, going from one extreme to the other bowel wise - these can't realistically be blamed on society.  Society's attitude towards people like me is nowhere near good enough, but it would be unfair and unreasonable to blame it for those things just mentioned.

My introception issues that leave me unable to tell when I need to eat, drink, go to the toilet, or change clothes to address temperature is nothing to do with society and will always cause damage for me

It's complex, isn't it? It is a spectrum condition and there will be some who are affected mildly. They may be able to take some positives from their condition and decide that - "swings and roundabouts...." - it's not all bad. Maybe even, in some circumstances, a boon. There are definitely plenty of people further along the spectrum to which the condition has been a definite negative for them, a real blight on their lives. They wouldn't be so balanced in their review of Autism - most certainly a negative and therefore they would be happy to class it as a disorder.

From a personal point of view it comes down to your own experience and to a certain extent your optimistic or otherwise outlook on life. From a medical point of view, it's whatever the policy thinkers define it to be and that has changed a fair amount over the years.

For what it's worth, I prefer to think of it as a "condition" rather than a disorder. But then that's me. My doctor will argue differently.

I would argue they are problematic because we try to maintain organisation in the modern world. These demands require a lot and offer very little option in succeeding

I agree. I’m only sad that so many of us get treated badly but it’s also that medicine is only learning about neurodiversity. And the society knows little about it, misinformation from social media or hate is not helping either. 

JT said:

The deficits felt come from society being set up for a different neurotype.

My more than mild executive functioning deficits(ADHD inattentive type?) have absolutely nothing to do with how society is set up.

Perhaps ask those who ask, to simply focus on what Autism is/ how it manifests/how one can deal with it, rather than how it is "properly described" in any given year.  That might be a useful response to anyone who asks and if you deem them worthy of a constructive answer?

In particular, I struggle to understand the “it’s society’s fault” argument as an explanation for sensory problems and the struggle with focus and concentration.

Not that I think it’s valid to blame 99% of the world for my inability to build social bonds. It has ruined my life but it’s hardly anyone else’s fault.