Why is Autism considerd a disorder?

I agree Martyn they would. Although I wonder how much of this isn't that we're different as such, but that most modern people are so used to not doing things, we don't have to remember things like phone numbers because the phone rembers them for us, we don't have to memorise routes or learn how to navigate by landscape features because we have satnavs.

I think a lot of the skills modern people think of as extraordinary would be normal in a stone age environment.

I had a quick scan through the article and noticed it mentioned how some people with mental illnesses would be seen as Shamans,but I think this is an over simplification of how long it takes to learn to be a shamen, its something you'd probably be seen as having an aptitude for in childhood and training would begin around the age of 7-8. I don't think you could just rock up  in the midst of a psychotic episode and have everyone think the spirits/gods etc were talking to you. Shamanism is a skill and it's not all dancing about and talking to the ancestors, it's learning how to keep yourself and your community safe from spiritual attack, about how to heal, how to diagnose, how to devine, so many things.

I think it was originally considered a 'syndrome' , which is a constellation of symptoms that occur together. Disorder is a group of symptoms that 'inhibits proper functioning' without a known cause, which differs from disease which is a medical condition with an identifiable cause. 

There's been research into the potential 'stone age origins' of autism, with parallels identified between paleolithic cave art and the drawings of autistic children. The Stone Age Origins of Autism | IntechOpen I think in a hunter-gatherer culture having advanced observational skills and excellent recall would be a positive advantage. 

I think the first part of this sort of journey would be to start in sub-Saharan Africa where there's more genetic diversity to begin with.

I'm not sure about 'fairly undiluted' populations as trade between and within these populations is thousands of years old, India has been dealing with China and the far east for thousands of years and the trade winds have carried ships from India to Africa and back again since pre-Roman times. To the point that there are more Roman coins found in India than anywhere else outside of Italy. Then I guess you'd get people trying to link ASC to Neanderthal's and bits of relic DNA we have from them, I think between 1 and 5% for most people, or Denisovan populations is places such as Nepal and Tibet.

I disagree about fabrics being rough, they can be, but many are remarkably fine, don't forget silk is one of the older fabrics, fine linens and other fabrics have been made for thousands of years and leather and suede for even longer. .

Even in the mental health parts of the NHS, which is already not equipped to deal with mental health and hidden Disability issues and needs its own separate body, where there is already way too much wastage and inefficiency in the NHS that cannot be fixed by privatisation and where fixing that wastage and inefficiency could release the needed funding, where in its current state, throwing more money at the problem is not going to solve the deep-rooted problems in the NHS or any separate body, where many simple changes do not even require additional funding, that refusal to understand and change is leading to an ultimately lack of political will to reform and vice versa, a vicious circle - there is both a failure and refusal to take on board the latest research, findings and trends on autism and other hidden disabilities - many autism and other charities in this area have done so but are curtailed in their work and the services that they can offer due to lack of funding - it is imperative and of fundamental importance that a new body dealing with mental health and hidden disability issues is formed and right from the start, reform must include learning from the mistakes of the NHS without applying or transferring those mistakes over to the new body and applying that knowledge and experience to ensure that things are done properly this time around - a crucial part of this must be to have people who are already working in and for autism and hidden disability charities placed in charge in key positions in this new body and other staff from that body, those vacancies must only be filled by those working for autism charities - an even better solution would be to give additional funding to autism charities to allow them to expand their work as the current mindset in the NHS is all wrong - a key part of this is that all staff would have a basic legal requirement to undertake regular training at least every 6 months - many autism charities rely on volunteers which limits their ability to offer the kind of services that they could provide 

Me too - no IBS since I retired!

I'm interested as to why you think it's potentially unethical?

If a big brother house was set up to be autism friendly and they then asked for both autistic and neurotypical volunteers to take part, I don't see a problem?

I think it would be a good idea for nobody to know who is autistic and who isn't. And there are accommodations and rules to keep the sensory input low, like everyone having their own bedroom and everyone must wear headphones to listen to music.

I agree about the bowel issues being stress related, mine went away once I stopped working, but come back occasionally when I have to go somewhere I don't want to go, usually something social that involves a lot of masking, new people and new places. When I'm home, doing things at my pace, I don't have any trouble with this.

Yeah that is a good point. There have been many times when I've misinterpreted people's intentions, especially at work. They test you on how far you'll go with things and use you as a performance. They did that to me at work, cleaning the floor, toilets, all the crap jobs while they sat around laughing behind my back. And yes, there have been situations that could've led to far worse than that.

It really would be fascinating. But potentially not very ethical

I agree, but for example the inability to read expressions may lead to being abused. I’m not gonna share what kind of hell I went through, but I guess I would be more likely to save myself from that if I could interact with others on a neurotypical level. I fell into that trap also because of being so lonely I craving connections that combined with poor social skills had a really tragic outcome. So I would have to add, I wouldn’t be disabled if other people don’t lie and are not malicious. I can’t be 100% sure that it’s due to autism although both therapist and me suspect that, I’m much more vulnerable than NTs. 

That was actually what I pictured when I wrote that! I would apply!

I think you should pitch that idea to channel 4. Perhaps they could do an autism friendly big brother house?

Very true, everyone's norm would be different.

It would be an interesting social experiment/study if psychologists could test it out. Let autistic people set up an (artificial) world they would like to live in, add some neurotypicals and see what happens!

It would be so interesting to actually test this out. Would they have the adaptability to accept that world? Would they just accept that as the norm because that's how their brains are wired. Or would they struggle in the way many of us do?

Although having said that, not all neurodiverse people would enjoy that world. Quiet would be ADHD hell, ordered would be PDA hell. Not as simple as we would like it to be sometimes I don't think.

I think if over 50% of the population were autistic, then being neurotypical would be the disorder, because we would be living in the world that suits us: quiet, ordered, structured, direct communication. Having to live up to neurotypical expectations disables us. Living in a neurodiverse world would enable us. Just my take on it. 

TheCatWoman said:

I think, ND would be spread fairly evenly across humans as a species,

I was wondering about this, but with it being genetic then I would think that where there are large genetic pools that are fairly undiluted (eg China, Japan and parts of Africa) then the genes in question may not be as prevelant - or more so.

I guess it depends on how far back in evolution you go, unless of course you are a creationist in which case our issues are a "gift" from God.

The American Psychiatric Association publishes, and revises occasionally, a guidebook aimed at mental health professionals which is known as the Diagnostic Manual of Mental Disorders (DSM). ASD is listed in this guidebook along with other mental health ‘disorders’. The terminology ‘ASD’ is the result of multiple revisions over the years and I imagine it will be revised again in the future. Perhaps we had better get thinking of our preferred terminology so that we can be ready! 

I think, ND would be spread fairly evenly across humans as a species, but I don't know and like you say depending on cultural norms it maybe more or less of a problem. I think one of the reasons ASC has been historically underdiagnosed or not thought possible is because many ASC traits are seen as socially desirable in women, things like lack of eye contact, shyness, happy to not socialise and be generally demure, to not stand up for ourselves or argue back.

I also heard somewhere, some years ago, that dyslexia is more common in English speaking countries, not because we're thick, but because of the complexity of our written language, think of people from other countries struggling with bough, brought, bought, through and all the other instances of silent letters, or the one that drives me personally crazy, Americans saying thorow insteag of thorough.

I think humans are weird because in small groups we behave as a pack with a pack mentality, that wants to keep the  pack together and protect its individual memebers, as long as they behave and adhere to the pecking order, bt in larger groups like a herd, think motorway driving.

I believe that the wording of DSM includes 'disorder' for the simple reason that US medical insurance companies require this wording in order to pay out for the costs of any treatments/accommodations that may be required.