first post

I suppose a bad card is only bad for as long as there is no apparent way to resolve the challenges it brings.

And when talking about religion I didn't really have organised religion in mind, perhaps a better eork wrould be 'existential.' this is about the sense that humans are thrown into a hostile world, spirit trapped in matter. These are ideas expressed in the movie The Man who Fell to Earth, where the alien who comes here gets rich, and forgets about why he came in the first place, which was to tale water back to his home planet, and save his people. 

I apologize, we were probably talking about different things. I meant a single case that happens, at the age of toddlers. You're probably talking about a pattern of behavior, and at a later age. Obviously, if it's something that continues and repeats itself, it doesn't matter what the age is and you need to find out if the child is suffering and how it can be improved. Also check what the reason is so that it doesn't continue or his feeling improves.

Yesterday I saw that there are a lot of views so I want to delete my profile. It's very pleasant here but I feel like a rat in a lab.

I don't think you understand what I said, and I'm not sure I understand everything you said either. I will try to make it clear.

I do not think a child is to blame for not having friends.

In the situation I described, I did not mean that the child consciously chooses their friends. Children naturally form groups of friends without understanding why. I used to be a teaching assistant working with children, and I only ever saw one child who had no friends - he was autistic with ADHD.

In an earlier post you suggested that a child might appear to be autistic when they are not, because they have no friends and only interact with adults. In my reply, I said that in that case it's possible that they may be autistic and so that should be investigated. No blame on the child, just a need to find out so that they can be given appropriate support. If they were not autistic they would still need help, and maybe they would need to see a child psychologist.

An example of a small sound is a ticking clock. Many people would not notice it. It drives me crazy.

Pupi, it's a shock fidning out, but it wears off after about 4 years it seems, then you finally feel more like your old self again.

Your brain does have to make some big adjustments and changes, which isn't very pleasant, but I think I've come out of it better than I went in. My partner seems happier overall, now too, knowing that some of the things I do "wrong" I really can't do "right". Knowing makes my apologies seem less like "excuses", for a start. Because she isn't being so critical about my failings, soemhow I feel MORE motivated to n make them too, so we both seem to be winning a it more in the relationship than we were. That's been good. 

I am really challenged by "deadlines" and "Rememberng to do things" and whilst I keep my mouth shut about teh Autism/ADD as much as I can, (I'm late, so what? I did a better job than the last guy!. etc.) if I decide that my half hidden failings are likely to really cause a serious issue rather than annoyance, I'll admit my weakness in these areas, and (if I can) specify what support I need In order to play my role sucessfully. 

BUT there is really NO ADVANTAGE to anyone it telling people who really don't need to know, they just start seeing you as an Autist and wondering what you will do next... (At best!)

Thank you for this interesting thread.  

You describe a situation where a child understands why they didn't want to play with him, accepts it, and chooses another group. Adults can hardly do all of this. All of this is assuming that another group even exists.
In my opinion, it is very dangerous to blame a child for other children not playing with him. Just because you think it's not a problem doesn't mean that he thinks that way. It also doesn't mean that it's true. A situation where children don't play with a child is a traumatic event. How can you conclude from that that he is autistic? It's just like saying that a girl who was raped is because of something in her. Children can not play, children can hit. First, check them. Offer them help.

It's interesting about school, but I have a hard time believing that this is an autistic experience. Maybe it depends on which school. The question is what you meant, I assume the social gathering and not the studies themselves. I didn't like it either.. But I was glad that children would come to me at the end of the school day to give me what they learned that day. Not because of the classes.

What do you mean by a small sound?

In the example of the dogs, if I understood correctly, they were content with loving dogs, and you wanted to know all the information related to it. I read about it. It happened to me in many areas..... But it's a desire to expand knowledge. How do you differentiate? Or did you mean memory capacity?

It happened to me that people suddenly said hello to me and it turns out they studied with me. I have no idea how they could remember me because most of the time I didn't come.

I didn't read but humans are like any animal. The desire to have children is a survival mechanism. Nature takes beautiful pictures but it is cruel, those who don't fit in with the rest of society are hunted down. I didn't understand what you meant further on.
Don't all religions think like that? I didn't understand what it had to do with religion but basically religions in the past gave rules for the existence of society. I doubt if there was any real meaning to the question of where you come from.

The example is interesting. Of course it is better to receive good cards than to learn to get along with bad cards. No one would say give me bad cards. But maybe if the cards are bad and I don't know, the self-confidence I would have is high. It is not based on facts but self-confidence is a different fact in itself.

Thanks for responding, you know there is a thread here on how folks found University?

I have a BA too, and found that sometimes there were individuals who wanted to friend me because they decided I was clever, but just as many found me detached, and weird. The tutors decided I didn't mix perhaps because of being an only child, but I wasn't an only child. I was criticised a lot for not making eye contact, but didn't see any significance in that at the time.

Did you ever read any books by Desmond Morris? He was the one who drew attention to just how ape-like we are, and he saw all the jostling for status, being better than, dominating others through creating alliances and cliques, as well as excluding and bullying, as typical of the way chimpanzees behave. 

It's not always clear to me whether in fact autistics aren't pretty similar in this respect. Look at someone like Elon Musk, for example! One or two religions in particular see all of us as having fallen to earth, if it's all just a glitch in our neurology, we'll then so much for that. In any case I think what is more important is how me play the cards we are dealt with, not not the cards themselves. But it doesn't help if you have difficult cards you didn't even know you had.... 

Yes, there are lots of reasons why certain children don't play with certain other children, but most will find some friends similar to them (who also wear glasses, for example)

You said I decided that because other children didn't want to play with him, that the child had a problem. I assume you mean that because he has no friends I think he must be autistic? I don't see autism as a problem, but it does cause problems with making friends, so although the child may not be autistic it's something that should be checked, so that the child can get the help they need.

Some examples of where I thought everyone was like me:

I hated school and thought everyone did. I was wrong. School is a very difficult place for most autistic children, but many non autistic children enjoy it.

I thought others could hear small sounds but just didn't mention it. Then I realised they couldn't hear those small sounds that I could.

I thought my interest in dogs when I was young was not unusual. But most young women who like dogs cannot identify every breed. I learned them all. This is an example of an autistic intense special interest.

Thanks for your response
I wasn't a diligent student. I have a BA and I didn't study diligently there either. I hardly attended classes because it bored me and I knew that before the test I would study on my own.
I had friends, sometimes different friends every year. Looking back, I didn't care about them, as if they existed only so that I could be more than them (this doesn't translate correctly. The meaning is not "better" but above. More like a decoration.
I also thought I was an alien. And society is never fair. It's like they invented a ruler to measure people but that ruler is wrong. It's not something that made me want to fit the ruler.

Thanks for your response
There are lots of reasons why children won't play with a child. Starting from appearance (not political but always relevant), acquaintance of parents, a toy someone wanted. Glasses. There are lots of reasons. An adult will probably know the reason but the child's experience is personal to him.

Asking why the children didn't want to play with him - and then immediately determining that it's because he has a problem? That's terrible. That's the scariest thing in a child's experience. If anything, that's an example of why a child will be afraid and prefer to stay away.

I suppose in many cases skill is needed. I know that it's prominent with me - so for this minute I'm sure it's attention deficit disorder and not autism. I have a diagnosis for that. I'm not sure about that either. Leave me without cigarettes and they'll be able to diagnose a psychopath.

Do you have an example of something that autistic people think everyone is like them and that's not?

It was very helpful to this Venusian as before I  read it I also thought that everyone experienced things the same way as me. 

The author is Ian Ford if you want to search for it online.

Lotus said:

Unfortunately I have heard stories of people being told they are not autistic because they are married, or because they have a friend, or because they work. This is not true - autistic people can make friends, get married, work and have children. They will still struggle with things though, which is why they are more likely to suffer from mental illness, but some learn to "mask" their autism, trying to act in a way they think is " normal" - so an assessor needs to be able to see through that.

I have seen people post such experiences here. There seems to be wide variation in how assessments are done. In Scotland the NHS has a very thorough set of guidelines assessors should follow and that is how mine was done but I’ve heard others say they had a one hour Zoom call, which just amazes me.

Masking was discussed heavily in my assessment and in the assessment report. It’s one the things they try very hard to gauge. They also got me to complete the CAT-Q test which assesses how much you mask (or “camouflage”). My score was off the chart.

https://embrace-autism.com/cat-q/

I will have to look for that field guide to earthlings, as it may be very helpful to a Martian like myself! 

Hi A And Pupi, this is a really interesting discussion.

Pupi, you gave an example of a child who other children do not want to play with developing autistic type behaviour. But why don't the other children want to play with him? Difficulty making and keeping friends is one of the main signs of autism due to communication and social interaction differences. Therefore the autistic child may prefer to be on their own or to interact with adults who they trust such as family members or teachers, who do not tease them or shun them and can teach them things.

You also asked if I had taken an ADD or OCD questionnaire. I have taken an ADHD online test and it showed that I did not have ADHD, but I score high on all autism tests. I'm sharing this is just to show that we don't all automatically score high on every test, although autistic people are more likely to have ADHD too.I

I also.understand that sometimes people can see things that a written test might not show, but the assessor has to be properly trained and skilled to see these things. Unfortunately I have heard stories of people being told they are not autistic because they are married, or because they have a friend, or because they work. This is not true - autistic people can make friends, get married, work and have children. They will still struggle with things though, which is why they are more likely to suffer from mental illness, but some learn to "mask" their autism, trying to act in a way they think is " normal" - so an assessor needs to be able to see through that.

A - you made a good point about autistic people thinking that everyone has the same problems or thinks the same way as they do. I read a book called "The field guide to Earthlings" which explained how neurotypical brains develop and the differences to autistic brains, which explained to me that autistic and neurotypical people have specific differences in the way they process information and deal with sensory inputs and communication.

Pupi - if you want to be certain whether you are autistic, you will have to try to get an assessment. But if you don't want that, or you will have to wait a long time for it, you are still welcome to talk through things with us on this forum.

If you have lived here for a long time you need to know the local language. After Brexit I had to dosomething, so I went for citizenship. 

There is a lot of awareness of autism around here now, though I still don't like the way it's described as a behavioural disorder in the literature. Kids all know about it now. The most noticeable thing I saw about two girls I had in my classes, who had been diagnosed, was how hardworking they were. But four boys were expelled from the school on account of one of them, for some kind of social media abuse against her, I was told. In another school there was one boy who seemed very noticeably autistic. In my second year the other kids were starting to bully him, I just told them that in a good class everyone has a place. I have a boy who comes to me five days a week now, and I have wondered if it isn't a case of neurodiversity there too. I've certainly had private students, adults and children, who seemed a bit ADHD, or had issues with an iety or depression. I once had a boy who was always very being late for his train, and was otherwise very interested in trains. He got work with the local train service when he left school. 

My school days, at least at secondary school, were a disaster, being an absolute parish whom everybody loved to hate. I used to fantasise that I was really an alien from a distant star whose consciousness was trapped in one of these rather mean apish bodies. I don't suppose I was all that nice really at all, but others were called nice, yet socially they could be bullies who lived to create pecking orders of popularity, or they were pretty quick to take advantage of any weakness they saw, for example asking to borrow a favourite pen, having no intention of giving it back hogging all the space on the shared schooldesk knowing I wouldn't be able to stand up for myself,, or occasionally beating me up in the school bus home. 

Thank you!

Hi
I also prefer not to write in a local group. And now I also wonder if we are from the same country

I never wanted to be like others. It's not a "decision" or a thought, but that's how I always felt. It's special to be special.
Unless. It's actually not special, but a kind of problem. Or more precisely it's part of another group. Very defined. You can talk all day about who is really normal and who is not - but it's meaningless. For example
I can say that my language is the best in the world, in this case it is also true, but I need to know English and those whose native language is English do not need to know my language.

Hi Pupi. 

It is not a prerequisite to be a native English speaker here. I would still be shy to join a similar group in the country where I live, which has a very rare language which it's natives are very proud of.

Are you saying you see no reason to accept stigma, when as it is most  'norms' have a pretty limited view on life too?

1. Arguably, wanting to be 'normal' could disay a certain lack of ambition, nevertheless not to be neurotypical does force a choice on how much to blend in with that majority of fitting in. 

Thanks! That's exactly what I meant. Maybe members here could give an example of something like what you mentioned? I would really appreciate it. These are the details I'm missing to understand.
(It doesn't replace professional opinion but it can give direction)

Greetings pupi!

Hi pupi, I suspect we've all questioned our autism diagnoses at some point and in particular that will likely involve wondering if some aspect of our upbringing, childhood or development is at fault, rather than an innate difference. Your example is compelling.

However, there are other aspects to autism, such as sensory differences, which I don't think can be so easily explained by our experience of life. One of things I really appreciated about the diagnosis process was when I'd say things like "but I suppose everyone has that problem" or "everyone experiences that" and the psychologist would say, "No, they really don't. Most people do not have to live with what you're describing".

Your point about tests is valid too. I did the AQ50 as a pre-screener at the suggestion of a psychiatrist, who then referred me for a full assessment. The assessment itself was composed of numerous questionnaires  (more than 10), a two hour assessment interview, a full Wechsler scale intelligence test, an ADOS test with a speech and language therapist and phone interviews with people who know me. This gave the assessors lots of opportunity to observe my body language, fidgeting, behaviours, how I speak, eye contact etc etc, which you wouldn't get from just a questionnaire.