The relationships and intimacy strategy thread

TheCatWoman said:

I think for us autists the need for alone time is hard for others to understand,along with absorbtion in hobbies etc. I've been told many times how wonderfully diferent I am to any other woman they've known, independent, strong, not clingy, intellegent, knowlegable etc. Until they find that I'm too all of the above and they don't like it, they don't actually want someone who can be independent and sort things out for herself, they want and expect to be asked. They don't want to be told no and why I disagree with them, especially if I'm going against what "thier pack" expects.

TheCatWoman said:

I don't notice flirting, it goes right over my head, I just think they're being friendly, it wouldn't even occur to me to ask if they were. I'm sure I've missed opportunities from this, or had lucky escapes.

This fits in well to my no. 1 below - male or female.

I've had disagreements here in the past with others who think that women should comply with rigid 1950s style ideals of women.

I've also been told that it's easier for women to meet partners (than men) even if autistic but I think that us missing the signals and not understanding allistic communications etc are just the same for us as for men. 

Social anxiety is there in the mix too for females as well as males.

I think that autistic women are unlikely to come across as conventional and to accede to society's more conservative expectations and if they do, they may well be very unhappy indeed.

So, it's good I think to realise that no matter what society demands of us, it's not necessarily natural to us.

For men, there are different expectations, but I suspect the same struggles with fulfilling these rigid roles.

With regard to men, I think that it's hard if there are still expectations for men to ask the women out 1st.

I don't know if that's still the case.

By-the-way, apologise for only speaking of 'men' and 'women' for the purpose of this particular point, I can't think of another way of expressing myself.

Unfortunately it seems to me that in most cases men are still expected to make the first move. There’s endless discussion of it in social media, obviously not just affecting autistic people.

I’ve also seen a lot of commentary from women about being annoyed by unwanted advances - but how do you know they’re unwanted if you don’t ask? Which leads to many men being overly careful and not engaging.

I’d much rather have to say “no thanks” sometimes than to never be asked.

I remember, that I almost never got asked, so I probably properly assumed, that I’m unattractive. I asked once a man, who i liked if he would go out with me. His reaction was “with you?! I can find better one!” My colleagues told me I have to take care of my look and be more self confident (never figured out how) but I forced myself to dye my hair although I like my natural color, I didn’t feel that need but I was told that men will be more interested. It didn’t work. Other women dye their hair, wear make up, fragrance, fancy clothes, for them it works, for me never. But I found the one man who loves me my natural way (thank goodness not all men like fancy women)

A said:

I just wonder what the mechanics of that were, because I would have said that my dad was even quieter and less social than me.

I grew up in society pre-internet so dances and other social situations were the best options for meeting partners.

You basically had to get the courage to ask the target of your interest for a dance and have some talking points to use during the dance that you could shout at them over the music with the hope they liked what they heard enough to go or another dance.

If you got lucky and it was a slower / quieter dance then you could get close to speak into their ear and had more of a chance to make them laugh.

You had to cope under pressure, have some prepared chatup lines to call on and be able to adapt to the situation (to accept rejection, someone else butting in, a song coming on you can't stand etc) and have made an effort with some grooming (especially personal hygiene as the stink of stale sweat or halitosys is going to kill the situation fast).

You either took your shot, masked being normal and maybe got one result in a load of attempts or stayed on the sidelines and complained about how unfair it all is.

Carpe diem is what it takes.

I know my parents met at one of those dance halls too. I just wonder what the mechanics of that were, because I would have said that my dad was even quieter and less social than me.

Debbie unable to post all replies being moderated said:

Funnily enough, I was talking today about how when we lose people from our lives we lose their histories and can feel a sadness that we didn't ask them something whilst they were here.

About ten years or so ago I went through a phase where genealogy was a special interest of mine. I traced the family tree back on both sides to the early 1700s. In the process I asked both parents what they knew about our family.

On my mum's side I have a crazy number of cousins, but on my dad's side I only had one cousin (who has passed away). As it turned out, there were a remarkable number of unmarried people on my dad's side and I am now acutely conscious that I am probably the only living person who now knows they ever existed. As I have previously noted on here "I have to wonder if my grandad’s family was a nest of autists".

I'm glad I got to ask so many questions before my parents declined.

It makes me wonder whether it was easier to get into a relationship in the past when people met in person.

I think that it probably was despite the fact that the internet has opened up a whole new avenue.

I think often the problems arise because some people can't say, 'thanks but no thanks'.

A said:

But I have literally just done our annual ethics training in the last week and the way it comes across, if I made any attempt to ask anyone at work out I could be facing an HR investigation.

My heart sinks into my slippers.

That's just going too far I think and yes, tons of people used to meet at work.

A said:

I've often wondered how my dad got together with my mum (I'm absolutely sure he was autistic). Maybe the answer is that he got to do it a very long time ago when things were a bit easier.

Funnily enough, I was talking today about how when we lose people from our lives we lose their histories and can feel a sadness that we didn't ask them something whilst they were here.

My dad met my mum at a dance hall which were a major thing in those days (1950s).

In my case, I think it was probably my mum who was autistic, but could have been my dad, or both.

In my youth, discos were a big way to meet and men asked women to dance - actually came up to you and it happened a lot.

It was a great way of getting into relationships.

The ways of meeting in person seem to be decreasing as the ways to be online increase.

Debbie unable to post all replies being moderated said:

However, how do men nowadays get into relationships, for example, at work if they are scared of an ethics policy that possibly makes them feel that they can't actually make a comment to a woman without it being perceived as sexual harrassment?

I think this is a really big issue. I know lots of couples at work who met at work but they're all a bit older. I'm not aware of any younger couples. And if you look up stats on where people met, traditionally work was one of the big ones.

But I have literally just done our annual ethics training in the last week and the way it comes across, if I made any attempt to ask anyone at work out I could be facing an HR investigation.

I know it's the company covering its own backside, but it really does have a chilling effect on normal social practices.

I've often wondered how my dad got together with my mum (I'm absolutely sure he was autistic). Maybe the answer is that he got to do it a very long time ago when things were a bit easier.

A said:

Unfortunately it seems to me that in most cases men are still expected to make the first move. There’s endless discussion of it in social media, obviously not just affecting autistic people.

I’ve also seen a lot of commentary from women about being annoyed by unwanted advances - but how do you know they’re unwanted if you don’t ask? 

That's a great strain then isn't it for male autists with the particular set of communication 'differences' we have.

With regard to your second comment, I was talking about that today.

I think that men have it particularly tough nowadays in that it appears that what is nowadays perceived as sexual harrassment (I was reading about Greg Wallace) would have been perceived as normal behaviour a couple of decades ago.

I was subjected to 1970s style comments + advances including touching etc many times and I think that's just plain wrong.

However, how do men nowadays get into relationships, for example, at work if they are scared of an ethics policy that possibly makes them feel that they can't actually make a comment to a woman without it being perceived as sexual harrassment?

I met my husband at work (17 years ago) and he asked me out for walks at lunchtime - I wonder nowadays if he would have done so.

It's a minefield.

A said:

Unfortunately it seems to me that in most cases men are still expected to make the first move. There’s endless discussion of it in social media, obviously not just affecting autistic people.

I’ve also seen a lot of commentary from women about being annoyed by unwanted advances - but how do you know they’re unwanted if you don’t ask? 

That's a great strain then isn't it for male autists with the particular set of communication 'differences' we have.

With regard to your second comment, I was talking about that today.

I think that men have it particularly tough nowadays in that it appears that what is nowadays perceived as sexual harrassment (I was reading about Greg Wallace) would have been perceived as normal behaviour a couple of decades ago.

I was subjected to 1970s style comments + advances including touching etc many times and I think that's just plain wrong.

However, how do men nowadays get into relationships, for example, at work if they are scared of an ethics policy that possibly makes them feel that they can't actually make a comment to a woman without it being perceived as sexual harrassment?

I met my husband at work (17 years ago) and he asked me out for walks at lunchtime - I wonder nowadays if he would have done so.

It's a minefield.

A said:

I just wonder what the mechanics of that were, because I would have said that my dad was even quieter and less social than me.

I grew up in society pre-internet so dances and other social situations were the best options for meeting partners.

You basically had to get the courage to ask the target of your interest for a dance and have some talking points to use during the dance that you could shout at them over the music with the hope they liked what they heard enough to go or another dance.

If you got lucky and it was a slower / quieter dance then you could get close to speak into their ear and had more of a chance to make them laugh.

You had to cope under pressure, have some prepared chatup lines to call on and be able to adapt to the situation (to accept rejection, someone else butting in, a song coming on you can't stand etc) and have made an effort with some grooming (especially personal hygiene as the stink of stale sweat or halitosys is going to kill the situation fast).

You either took your shot, masked being normal and maybe got one result in a load of attempts or stayed on the sidelines and complained about how unfair it all is.

Carpe diem is what it takes.

I know my parents met at one of those dance halls too. I just wonder what the mechanics of that were, because I would have said that my dad was even quieter and less social than me.

Debbie unable to post all replies being moderated said:

Funnily enough, I was talking today about how when we lose people from our lives we lose their histories and can feel a sadness that we didn't ask them something whilst they were here.

About ten years or so ago I went through a phase where genealogy was a special interest of mine. I traced the family tree back on both sides to the early 1700s. In the process I asked both parents what they knew about our family.

On my mum's side I have a crazy number of cousins, but on my dad's side I only had one cousin (who has passed away). As it turned out, there were a remarkable number of unmarried people on my dad's side and I am now acutely conscious that I am probably the only living person who now knows they ever existed. As I have previously noted on here "I have to wonder if my grandad’s family was a nest of autists".

I'm glad I got to ask so many questions before my parents declined.

It makes me wonder whether it was easier to get into a relationship in the past when people met in person.

I think that it probably was despite the fact that the internet has opened up a whole new avenue.

A said:

But I have literally just done our annual ethics training in the last week and the way it comes across, if I made any attempt to ask anyone at work out I could be facing an HR investigation.

My heart sinks into my slippers.

That's just going too far I think and yes, tons of people used to meet at work.

A said:

I've often wondered how my dad got together with my mum (I'm absolutely sure he was autistic). Maybe the answer is that he got to do it a very long time ago when things were a bit easier.

Funnily enough, I was talking today about how when we lose people from our lives we lose their histories and can feel a sadness that we didn't ask them something whilst they were here.

My dad met my mum at a dance hall which were a major thing in those days (1950s).

In my case, I think it was probably my mum who was autistic, but could have been my dad, or both.

In my youth, discos were a big way to meet and men asked women to dance - actually came up to you and it happened a lot.

It was a great way of getting into relationships.

The ways of meeting in person seem to be decreasing as the ways to be online increase.

Debbie unable to post all replies being moderated said:

However, how do men nowadays get into relationships, for example, at work if they are scared of an ethics policy that possibly makes them feel that they can't actually make a comment to a woman without it being perceived as sexual harrassment?

I think this is a really big issue. I know lots of couples at work who met at work but they're all a bit older. I'm not aware of any younger couples. And if you look up stats on where people met, traditionally work was one of the big ones.

But I have literally just done our annual ethics training in the last week and the way it comes across, if I made any attempt to ask anyone at work out I could be facing an HR investigation.

I know it's the company covering its own backside, but it really does have a chilling effect on normal social practices.

I've often wondered how my dad got together with my mum (I'm absolutely sure he was autistic). Maybe the answer is that he got to do it a very long time ago when things were a bit easier.