Published on 12, July, 2020
I was diagnosed 3 weeks ago with autism, something I wasn't surprised at and actually feel relieved at knowing.
I work in the civil service, always been office based, never worked from home but over the last few years I've been really struggling with the work and the environment I was in.
Currently on sick leave and spoken to manager about what I'd like going forward. I've said full time home working due to the issues I faced in the workplace (crowded, noisy, temperature too hot, no routine). I've been told that I'd have to put in a flexible working request first to leave the department then put in a reasonable adjustment request on my new team for home working.
I've explained my issue with this is if I get moved teams on the first request its to operations which is a big open plan floor with hundreds of people, I've sat there briefly last year and had to leave the building as it was too overwhelming (at this point not knowing I was autistic). If this was to happen and then my reasonable adjustment request for home working was rejected I'd be stuck in an environment far worse than the one I'm requesting to leave.
Does anyone have any pointers on what the best course of action is to request full time home working? I've read up on so many pages but again when I mention it to my manager I keep getting told 'the expectation is to be in the office 2-3 days a week as a minimum' which goes against the law which states each reasonable request should be treated on a case by case basis and not compared to other requests.
CaliforniaDreamer95 said:I have had multiple (Video) interviews for the DWP for the role of Work Coach but I have always been unsuccessful.
I performed quite a lot of recruiting for the civil service in my time so can share some insights into the process.
Getting to interview stage is quite an achievement in itself as each position typically gets hundreds of applicants and only applicants whose CVs tick all the boxes of "essential" skills and experience will be considered.
From this list they have to select a number for interview so chose this number (typically about 10-20) and go through every CV and score it on how much they meet the "must have" and "good to have" skills. From this list the top 10-20 are then selected.
Note that the scoring is done on redacted CVs so the selection panel cannot see the race, ethnicity or any other identifying or prejudicial characteristics, so it is a very fair process.
Interviews typically take 2 or 3 stages - the first ones are to assess if you lied in your CV (sometimes an online technical test is used to filter) and to assess your communication skills, how you solve problems and whether you seem to be a good fit for the team.
This is where most autists fall out of the mix because our "team fit" rating will not be good.
Throughout the interview the panel will score you on a range of pre-agreed aspects and all the panelists need to agree on the scores. Differences in scoring are discussed to see if bias is present and this is eliminated where possible.
If needed a further filtering down of the list is used and a 3rd round of interviews used where a different task is given to the candidates and scores taken with the best rating being offered the job first.
I had to go on 3 training courses for recruitment to make sure I understood the company line on how they must be performed and recorded so that any claims of bias can be assessed and will stand up in a tribunal if needed.
I can't say specifically why you were not successful but the communication and interaction parts are where most autists let themselves down compared to neurotypicals. We tend to feel "off" compared to the others and this is anticipated to translate into poor team interaction (actually it probably will).
With so many applicants to choose from there is no incentive to take an autist over a neurotypical of similar scoring when there is so much potential for problems further down the line. We have to excel at some things to be able to stand out - this is pretty much your only chance to get a role like this.
Don't let it put you off though - if you keep building your skills then one day you will stand out enough to overcome whatever is holding you back from being chosen.
Hello,
I have had multiple (Video) interviews for the DWP for the role of Work Coach but I have always been unsuccessful. Can you give me any advice as to why this may be?
Mr T said:the excuse of 'everyone else will want' does not stand up to judicial scrutiny.
The HR response that won't be put in writing is that it will create "undue pressure on us to provide a service we consider detrimental to the effective running of the organisation".
This stuff comes in conversations held quietly between HR and the manager(s), is not documented or confirmed in writing when asked and it is not just the civil service, it is big employers in general.
If one person can meaningfully perform their entire role from home then everybody else can too - this leads to a lot of unrest from the other staff because the original requestor is getting treatment that they should be fairly allowed access to as well.
In essence it becomes like a house of cards.
Most management hate remote working as it is so hard to get a team spirit going, to quickly and effectively get info disseminated through the team and means they don't get to keep an eye and ear on what is going on so they can manage performance and morale.
Big corporations will take a long time to evolve into the world of working from home with trust on both sides.
Mr T said:This is a minefield to manoeuvre around and would point the OP to sites like valla for advice.
I agree. The purpose of my info dump from the management perspective is to understand what they are facing, to manage their expectations and formulate a strategy that has a better chance of suceess.
With the greatest respect Iain I take your point of view from managements side but should we all not be fighting for what it is we need regarding adjustments. If the managers can justify it in writing you may well be right. However, the excuse of 'everyone else will want' does not stand up to judicial scrutiny. Every case is different. The EQA 2010 is very clear that you can be treated differently to others if it is a means of removing barriers that cause a significant disadvantage.
This is a minefield to manoeuvre around and would point the OP to sites like valla for advice.
Mr T said: I think what we have to face from our managers is in most due to a lack of understanding about the challenges and effects that ASD has over time ie cumulative.
I worked amongst that group of managers and it isn't lack of understanding or compassion, but the fact they have to deliver results typically with fewer staff than they are allocated and when one becomes a drag on productivity and the fix is going to cause wider problems (ie more staff seeing that person gets to work from home all the time and they want the same thing) then it is too big an overhead.
When this happens the response we are typically given is to be compassionate but not to give ground - ie make it so the person sees themselves out of the job. This comes from the HR team and senior management although they are smart enough to leave no paper trail.
This isn't just the Civil Service and not just for autism - it is the go-to response when a difficult situation arises.
From their side they can typically hire a replacement for less money (even allowing for training) and if you quit because you can't handle the environment then there is no pay out. Discrimination claims are unlikely to be successful as they have already made significant concessions and cover their backs well.
I think this will remain an issue for as far into the future as I can see - a simple case of economics for them as they don't typically worry about the individuals when there is a large pool of staff and finding replacement staff is easy.
It is a good point about the unions - deffo join up and use then for advice and possibly leverage but I expect they will give the same conclusion once initial attempts are made.
Sorry it isn't more positive but I wanted you to see the other side of the situation from a management perspective so you can understand what is happening.
This sounds very much like myself. I think what we have to face from our managers is in most due to a lack of understanding about the challenges and effects that ASD has over time ie cumulative. Wish I could give you better advice. Can you work with occupational health as their input can help sway managers. Also is there an equality and diversity service in your area? Getting all available support can only strengthen you case and of course use your union fulltime officers.
My situation remains unresolved after over a year and I have been moved to a temporary placement in the meantime. However this I fear is just kicking the can further down the road.
You’re welcome! I also posted another reply, which was initially wrongly flagged as spam, but has just been reinstated.
There has been a real push towards open plan offices and hot desking in the civil service in the last 10 years. They hate the idea of empty desks / offices. See it as a waist of space, and in london esspecially space costs. But a side effect makes everything feel very noisy / crowded for autistic people.
Have you started working with a therapist who specialises in autism to help you manage the issus that are causing you anxiety / burnout?
Therapists can offer a great range of ways to do this and you may even be able to get this as part of your working time as a medical appointment - I've approved this for my staff before.
From my experience of managing in the Civil Service they will allow you some flexibility but after it becomes a long running issue of lack of attendance or underperformance then they will find ways to encourage you to leave.
To avoid this I think the best approach is to show you are working on the issues and have made all reasonable efforts to find ways to make it bearable.
At the end of the day there is a chance for 100% WFH but this will be seen as the thin end of the wedge so is unlikely to be last. It isn't what they publicise but senior management will still see it as a risk of others saying "me too" and losing the control they have in the office environment.
If you really cannot adapt to work in the hybrid environment that they are offering then it would be better to try to find another role that does offer what you need.
You have options to take more control of the narrative here - good luck with them.
Thanks for this, really appreciate it. Will give it a look over tomorrow as I need to get something sorted as I can't continue like this. Can only try and see what happens.
I appreciate the reply.
The office environment I"m in isn't new, it's something I've always struggled with over the last 8 years since we started in this office. I put it down to temperature all the time but now I have my assessment in detail it's much deeper than that.
Social interaction and communication were key points raised that I struggle with. Not sure how I can cope with this any longer in the working conditions I currently have. I just want to get my head down and do my work but during the office day its team meetings, huddles, 1-1's, cramped office space with 40 people interacting amongst other things.
My 1-1s over the last two years go into detail about my struggles in the workplace. Often thought to be the temperature I mentioned but also the workload we were dealing with at the time however my output was the top 3 on the department.
I've ended up using so much flexi and annual leave before my sickness that people were saying I was never there but in reality I'd go in early to build some flexi up as I knew I wouldn't last the day. I'd go before the end of my shift and try and calm down back home, doctors highlighting this to be autism burnout.
With respect to Iain, I disagree strongly with his advice. Nothing needs to have "changed physically".
Iain: "You were doing it before (in a slightly different office environment) so asking for a radical change because of the changed environment is unlikey to be accepted. Unless you can prove something has changed for you (if it has been the diagnosis then this is not a change, it is simply gaining knowledge) then they will turn it down.
With the law you quote, it id going to come down to the application of the term "reasonable" here. IF nothing has changed physically for you then they will say you are just being petulant about the new office environment and they have already offered 2-3 days to work from home - and this is likely to be accepted as being reasonable by any tribunal."
All late-diagnosed autistic people were, by definition, "doing it before" (all kinds of things, in their private and/or work lives). All of this "doing it before" will, in many cases, have come at a significant cumulative cost to those individuals. Examples may include - but be far from limited to - work performance levels, career progression (ie lack thereof), physical health issues, mental health issues, and relationship problems.
With you having been diagnosed as autistic, your employer has an undeniable legal duty to make reasonable adjustments. What is "reasonable" will vary on a case-by-case basis, just as autism does. With the benefit of those adjustments and other changes in your life, you can hopefully look forward to removing or reducing some of the negative impacts that you experience by virtue of being autistic.
Again with respect, Iain also doesn't know what "they will say" or "turn down" - in respect of either your employer or any potential tribunal.
Rather than adopting a defeatist attitude, I encourage you to approach this issue from the perspective of what adjustments you feel would be reasonable in your case, and why. Ideally with the help of expert resources, advice and/or advocacy - including via the previous links in this thread.
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Hello NAS92857
I'm glad to see you have had some helpful responses to your post. I wanted to share some NAS guidance that you may also find useful.
https://autism.org.uk/advice-and-guidance/topics/employment/support-at-work/autistic-adults
https://autism.org.uk/advice-and-guidance/professional-practice/employment-adjustments-tips
https://www.autism.org.uk/what-we-do/employment/autism-work-programme/how-to-create-an-autism-profile
I hope this will help you to determine and request the workplace adjustments you require.
Best wishes
Sharon Mod
NAS92857 said:over the last few years I've been really struggling with the work and the environment I was in.
What has changed from the years before this? Understanding what the changes have been is a good way to work out specifically what you should target.
NAS92857 said:I've said full time home working due to the issues I faced in the workplace (crowded, noisy, temperature too hot, no routine).
I worked on a few Civil Service projects that involved moving a lot of departments to large, open plan and hot desk environments and recall so many complaints because people were quite territorial.
For management the choice was logical as it saved so much money, gave a level playing field for desks to ensure fairness and made staff much more visible and accessible.
You can't get away from the crowded office aspect as individual offices are no longer an option so home working is one way to deal with this. For the noise aspect you can get noise cancelling headphones - these are very effective.
For the temperature, it will help to be hydrated and wear layered clothing (cottons ideally) with possibly a USB fan to keep you cool.
NAS92857 said:I keep getting told 'the expectation is to be in the office 2-3 days a week as a minimum' which goes against the law which states each reasonable request should be treated on a case by case basis and not compared to other requests.
You were doing it before (in a slightly different office environment) so asking for a radical change because of the changed environment is unlikey to be accepted. Unless you can prove something has changed for you (if it has been the diagnosis then this is not a change, it is simply gaining knowledge) then they will turn it down.
With the law you quote, it id going to come down to the application of the term "reasonable" here. IF nothing has changed physically for you then they will say you are just being petulant about the new office environment and they have already offered 2-3 days to work from home - and this is likely to be accepted as being reasonable by any tribunal.
You may need to find ways to cope if you want to continue in the job as I know the civil service is less tolerant of these sorts of requests since it can open the floodgates to more people asking and they really don't trust staff to work from home (don't ask me how I know - I had to sign an NDA).
I hope some of the practical tips help and the blunt advice is useful, but I'm afraid it isn't really what you wanted to hear.
Apologies if you've already read these resources - but, if not, they may be helpful:https://www.cfcs.org.uk/help-advice/health-and-wellbeing/wellbeing-at-work/workplace-adjustments/
The above page includes:
"To access a full suite of Civil Service Workplace Adjustments Policy guidance and support tools, log-in to the: Civil Service Learning (CSL) website: Civil Service Learning (CSL) website."
Other resources linked on the same page include: