Should there be accountability for inequality?

Addendum: men are also very much less likely to “approach” a female colleague now since the me-too scandal. I had a sense this was the case for a while but recently I’ve been seeing various things saying the number of people meeting at work has plummeted.

This was already a problem for me, working in IT which was already about 80% male. The ratio has improved but you almost never get to meet your coworker now.

Amerantin (former member) said:

huge numbers of people never attend a work place (where 20-25% of people used to meet their partners),

Your analysis is very worrying for the future - it's something that doesn't look set to improve.

With regard to the above, I'd have guessed a higher figure than this.

The working from home thing is super in a lot of contexts but of course it can be alienating.

I met my husband through work and all my former boyfriends.

I know. It’s a huge problem in some places but I think there is another side too, which is that a lot of the mechanisms by which people used to meet have withered in modern society.

People used to live in much smaller communities where there were only a limited number of potential partners available and people came together by family introduction, church, or because they were the only person within 5 miles.

Today we have huge populations living close together but anonymous to each other, huge numbers of people never attend a work place (where 20-25% of people used to meet their partners), family / community introductions ended when we moved to big cities and young people are relying on dating apps which the stats say have been bad for everyone but particularly for men.

Amerantin (former member) said:

it absolutely doesn’t represent what I saw in my friend’s family

I realised that, thanks, which is why I mentioned the element of real choice.

Sometimes it's just a nod to the woman having a choice.

Amerantin (former member) said:

that might be true in some countries today

From time to time (before I cut myself off from the news) I would read tragic stories from this country of young women committing suicide or being killed by family with respect to an arranged marriage.

For anyone reading this, I'd recommend 2 related books:

Brick Lane by Monica Ali and A Thousand Splendid Suns by Khalid Hosseini.

I would agree that might be true in some countries today but it absolutely doesn’t represent what I saw in my friend’s family. His sisters were in full control of the process.

Arguably much more so than their suitors.

Amerantin (former member) said:

But both chose to have arranged marriages

Yes, it's the element of actual real fundamental choice that matters.

A lot of arranged marriages are just instututionalised rape, sometimes of children (which I'm sure you know).

Amerantin (former member) said:

From what I’ve read it’s not too different to how things used to work in most of Europe when people lived in small communities before industrialisation.

And if you were a woman who chose to live on her own with her cats and her herbs you were likely to be tried as a witch....

Societal pressure on women to do what men think they should isn't something I'd personally endorse.

We've hardly escaped that noose.

Even my mother was expected to get married and have children, which she didn't want.

My Indian friend is becoming a doctor. Must be a popular field

When I was young my best friend was a Pakistani boy who had two older sisters. They were very modern and westernised, both went on to become doctors and their parents were very modern and liberal.

But both chose to have arranged marriages. Basically their wider family and friends introduced to them to various candidates until they found one they liked.

Sort of like a dating agency I suppose.

From what I’ve read it’s not too different to how things used to work in most of Europe when people lived in small communities before industrialisation.

.

Income, health and happiness, yes. 

Relationship success, no.

In retrospect I’m slightly jealous of cultures which have arranged marriages. It would have helped me massively.

Roswell said:

Does society have a duty to account for unequal outcomes in income, health, relationship success and happiness?

What do you mean by 'account for'?

If you mean should society as a whole do its best to equalise opportunities for others, then that's the socialist viewpoint and I would say 'yes'.

Here is a definition of socialism -v- capitalism.

https://www.britannica.com/money/topic/socialism

I think that our society has over the decades, with varying success, been one of the best ones at this.

There is horrendous inequality in other countries in the world.

I think that we should as individuals take some responsibility too by, say, giving to charities where we can.

That's all down to individuals though and a lot of people aren't concerned with society as a whole but rather with their own family unit.

You have given 4 areas and what others can do with regard to each area varies.

Income - we are a country with minimum wage and social support which is a lot more than some other countries have.

However, a lot more could be done by this capitalist government to help the most vulnerable, if there was a will, which there isn't.

Health - we are blessed with the NHS and should treat it as a precious jewel.

It is however grossly underfunded and being privatised by stealth.

A lot of things impact health too, such as poverty, so there is a strong tie-in there.

Happiness - I don't think society can do that much to make people happy apart from ensuring we have the necessities of life, which of course vary from person to person.

Relationship success - mmm ... that's a really tricky one.

In the 'old days' a woman would be married off to a man, whether she wanted him or not, whether she was gay or not, and that still happens in some countries/cultures.

I don't think I want society to put it's sticky fingers into my relationship pie.

I could say vastly more but I'm holding back.

I'd appreciate a qualification of what you mean by 'society' (everyone, government?) and 'account for' (take responsibility for?).

Just think where we were before our socialist governments ((Liberal)/Labour) created the NHS and the welfare state.

I think it makes sense for society to mitigate these things where it can but some of it will always be down to individual effort, talent etc.

Not really sure how anyone else could be accountable for my lack of relationship success though, much as I’d appreciate some help!

It seems to me the UK has voted a genocide on its own population.

its impossible.

on health terms for example.... a person who lost a leg in example will always be unequal and disadvantaged to a person with all legs no matter what you do... unless ofcourse we get perfect sci fi improved prostetics that work better than a real leg ofcourse.... but yeah lets use something else then like some bad thing that makes you unfit and weak hearted and unable to do much pysical stuff, money cant fix that, giving you money doesnt fix that... your life is always impacted and nothing can make that equal to anything nor can fix it. so inequality like this will always exist and be unfixable and have nothing to truly remedy it.

There are charities and other organisations that attempt to address those issues. Sadly, they've been totally undermined by over a decade of hard-right capitalist idealism from the Tory government. It's a free-for-all and people have been brainwashed into thinking it's all about "personal responsibility" (amongst many other inane right-wing soundbites used to brush over complex socioeconomic issues).

The UK is ruled by wealthy, overprivileged elites and they want to keep it that way. While that structure is in place there won't be any accounting for inequality, I'm afraid.

We live in a nation where our government calls the homelessness crisis (exacerbated by 13 years of austerity, a housing crisis, and cost of living crisis) a "lifestyle choice".

This is what's been voted for since 2010. As a nation, we continue to shoot ourselves in the foot.