Published on 12, July, 2020
https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/adhd-can-explain-doesnt-excuse-how-take-personal-leanne-maskell/
Edit: Sorry. I did not think this was conflating Autism and ADHD, I figured since autism and ADHD are common comorbidities and some of the people here are not diagnosed they may not be aware of ADHD as well. I haven't found an ADHD forum yet. Also, I am not entirely how this is all about pulling yourself up from your bootstraps. The way i saw it was you are responsible for your actions. Your ADHD and autism do not define who you are. Who you are is what you do. ADHD may make you more impulsive, have a worse memory and lots of other things but it is your responsibility to seek out help in the areas that you need it. This doesn't mean you have to do everything yourself it means self-awareness knowing your strengths and weaknesses and finding ways to manage your weaknesses you can't rely on other people all the time to put up with you. If your actions hurt other people you can't blame your neurodivergence, it gives an explanation for why it happens but is up to you make amends, and try to prevent it from happening again. I don't know if this is directly relevant to Autism, but it was an interesting perspective. That was the point of the article not about ADHD or Autism but the perspective on neurodivergence. I didn't view this as just masking, it was more of you know you have ADHD, so you need to put in place measures that work with your brain to prevent harmful actions from occurring. If they do occur then it is still your fault. You shouldn't blame yourself for being neurodivergent you should view it as here is where I struggle, what measures can I put in place to make it easier for me. A growth mindset essentially just means you learn from your mistakes. Our brains aren't fixed, they are capable of change. This is called neuroplasticity. We may always have autism or adhd but that does not define who we are. What defines who we are is our actions. Just because something happened in the past does not mean we are always doomed to repeat our mistakes, but we have got to be willing to put the work in. That's unfair, neurotypical people don't have to put up with this, but life's unfair, we can't control that we were given autism or adhd what we can control is how we respond to it.
I will leave you with this quote from Doctor Who. "The universe shows it's true face when it asks for help. We show ours by how we respond."
I know a lot of people conflate ADHD with autism. But can we avoid that here? If you're trying to make a point about autism by posting this could you frame it in terms of autism? I for one don't know enough about ADHD to comment on a random link about it.
ASD/ADHD is a very common comorbidity, you can bet that the majority of users have at least a passing familiarity with that.
BTW, that article is terrible. It is: "pull yourself up from your own bootstraps, you can just choose not to have ADHD. If you cannot, pay me for some coaching!" Normies have an horrible outlook towards ND people
My initial impression was also if you tried to apply this kind of logic to autism it would be terrible and erroneous. But not knowing enough about ADHD I don’t feel qualified to comment.
What I can say is that while there may be a significant overlap in terms of a number of people who have both autism and ADHD What I can say is that while there may be a significant overlap in terms of a number of people who have both autism and ADHD I know enough to say the 2 conditions are incredibly different and you can’t really relate one to the other. it’s like equating apples and oranges.
Peter said:Obviously the DSM and the ICD are written from the perspective of Neurotypicals and Neurotypical society. So when they talk about social difficulties they’re talking about social difficulties in the context of interacting with Neurotypicals and Neurotypical society.
Yes I understand both of those pathologising manuals are written based on the expectations and experiences of a neuronormative society.
If you want to gain a different perspective and understand the harms and history of these manuals, 'We're All Neurodiverse' is a brilliant book.
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Were-All-Neurodiverse-Neurodiversity-Affirming-Neuronormativity/dp/1839975784
Obviously the DSM and the ICD are written from the perspective of Neurotypicals and Neurotypical society. So when they talk about social difficulties they’re talking about social difficulties in the context of interacting with Neurotypicals and Neurotypical society.
however it’s been my personal experience that seeing eye to eye with other autistic people is not always straightforward for me even if it is somewhat easier. And since most of us can’t expect to only have social groups built around other autistic people social difficulties with Neurotypical’s will translate to social difficulties generally.
Ausomely Autistic said:I don’t find socialising difficult, I find it really enjoyable when we connect deeply and I chat with my neurokin like in this community.
My experience is totally opposite. I just cannot stand the infantile behaviour and naivety of the average ASD. Paradoxically, I feel better as the "weird guy" in a normie environment than as the "high functioning one" in an aspie group.
Peter said: it’s explicitly mentioned as a necessary part of a diagnostic criteria. A person who does not have social difficulties, who never had social difficulties, compared to other people of similar age and intelligence, is not autistic. they do not meet the diagnostic criteria.
I don’t agree with this or relate I think we autistics have a different social communication style.
I don’t find socialising difficult, I find it really enjoyable when we connect deeply and I chat with my neurokin like in this community. It’s just that the majority of the time I am communicating with non autistic people hence the miscommunication and The Double Empathy Problem. I also find socialising really enjoyable when I am around people who really understand me.
The only reason why our way of socialising is viewed negatively is because the needs and experiences of the predominant neurotype are favoured and we happen to be a minority group. This isn’t to say that us autistics do not experience social isolation or feel lonely, I think it’s just that we have not found our tribe who we truly connect with- usually other autistics.
Actually I know someone who is AuDHD. She is one of the most socially connected people I know. In part because her ADHD seems to throw her into social situations in a way that people find endearing. She makes just as many social gaffes as non-ADHD autistic people but for whatever reason, because of the ADHD perhaps, it comes off as being almost endearing. Of course female autistic individuals often find they are able to compensate for their social difficulties much more easily than men. So that could also be a factor.
I think my main point is people with ADHD do not intrinsically have poor social skills. with autism it’s actually part of the definition. it’s explicitly mentioned as a necessary part of a diagnostic criteria. A person who does not have social difficulties, who never had social difficulties, compared to other people of similar age and intelligence, is not autistic. they do not meet the diagnostic criteria.
there are plenty of ADHD people who do not have significant social difficulties. that’s not to say ADHD can’t cause social difficulties, but it’s not so intrinsic to ADHD that it has to be part of the diagnostic criteria.
You are very welcome! Thank you for starting this discussion!