Let's have a discussion on dating autistic vs. neurotypical people

Thank you.  This is what I needed to hear. 

I can totally understand where you're coming from. The thing is that we can't change anyone. When you get the urge to help in this way again, reminde yourself that you will simply fail while in the meantime get hurt. It's their job to heal themselves and yours is to heal yourself. It's not just about dividing tasks or being selfish, it's the only way that the healing could work anyway. I used to fall for people who are emotionally unaware or unavailable, someone who simply can't love me back and my motivation was to "fix it". Whenever I was treated poorly, instead of taking care of myself I'd feel compassionate with them and tell myself "poor thing never experienced true love that's why doesn't know how to show it. I'll be nicer, more loving, more understanding and eventually they'll change and we would be happy". It's what psychologists explain as creating a phantasy when we were children to help us cope with the lack of love from our parents. The phantasy says exactly that "if I'd be nicer to mama, mama would eventually love me". Unfortunately, it's a creation of a child's brain that has nothing to do with the reality because mama and my ex partner simply aren't capable of love and there's nothing I can change about it no matter how much I want to help them, I can't. Another very important thing to keep in mind, once you tell yourself "oh I'll be very loving and they will change and then we will be happy", that this statement means that you aren't happy now with who they are and the happiness of the relationship is on hold until your partner changes. Stick to people that you don't need them to change, to people who make you happy NOW and not in the imaginary future.

I don't know if my way to meeting new people is passive. I think all I can do to get to know someone is to carefully listen to them and myself before I decide what's next. I'll have to wait until I see who they are and I'm not sure of there's another way to do it. 

My best relationship has been with an NT (my husband).

I'm still friends with a chap I had a relationship with and lived with when neither of us knew we were autistic.

It wasn't successful.

In retrospect (hindsight is a wonderful thing) I understand now more why.

Autistic people have sensitivies + requirements that it is very important are prioritised or great stress can be caused.

When 2 such people are trying to live together one is less able to concede to/accommodate the other because we are both vulnerable.

That's just my own experience, of course.

“We have a knack of finding each other and there is growing evidence that the communication differences are no ‘deficit’ at all between autistic people because we are naturally on the same wave length.” Yes! There are two main characteristics about my autistic relationships that I highly appreciate. One, is that when we talk, we are rarely looking at each other. It helps me focus on what they are saying, and I can respond without having to process their emotional disposition so that my responses are as authentic as possible. When I’m thinking about what people are saying and what to respond, I move my eyes like I’m searching through my brain. It’s as if I were looking through the physical area for my thoughts. Two, we rarely have small talk. Small talk is so unfulfilling to me and actually makes me feel shallow and inauthentic...as if I have nothing of value to contribute, just mindless statements made to pass time or create a false relationship. Instead, we discuss matters of greater importance and to a deeper level.

“We often don't see through motives and don't see the exploitation coming.” Exactly, it was only in hindsight after the relationship that I recognized all of the signs and cues that I missed. She clearly had a goal from the beginning and was quite calculated with her behaviors. It’s upsetting that people like that exist.

“LOL not going to give a way too much but sex between two autistic people - well, I can tell you from experience that can be the most fun you can have without actually laughing ;-)” Okay, now I’m excited! Let me go check when this local aspie group is having their next meetup lol.

My close friends that I mentioned in the OP actually insist that when I meet someone, they have to be friends with her to check for anything I might be missing. I think it’s a great idea because they’re both psychologists, one’s an NT, and the other is autistic. They have a wide-range of strengths that would cover a lot of areas.

“It is rather nice to have your communication style immediately understood by your partner and to know it's always perfectly fine to ask and answer blunt questions without anyone taking offence, or to just understand and be understood when one of you has just had too much of people today and wants to go loose themselves in some hyper focused hobby.” This is a great point and is a potential reason as to why sex is central to my past relationships. In fact, while we were breaking up and I was in therapy, I would tell my therapist that we were still hooking up. She said that I needed to stop sleeping with her so that I could see what the relationship really was. I did and the whole thing fell apart so quickly.

“The important question to ask the self 'how do I feel around this person?' And believe what you answer yourself over any fact about this person that might make your feelings 'nonsense'. It doesn't matter if it's nonsense or not, what matters is how you feel around your possible future partner.”  This sums up what my therapist taught me though 8 sessions. This is exactly was every victim of abuse needs to hear. You have a great way of summarizing relationships wisdom.

I really like and appreciate your dating advice, especially the parts about how to re-evaluate the trust you give them if things change rather than blame yourself for causing the problem. Trusting my gut is also something my therapist insisted on teaching me, so it’s helpful to hear it again.

I find your phases approach appealing and am interested in implementing something similar that feels more comfortable to me. I may be misunderstanding an aspect of it, and would like further discussion. To me, it seems a bit passive, almost as if you’re waiting for them to show you why you should exclude them. It reminds me of Jerry Seinfeld in the sitcom. “She had man hands.” I guess maybe the whole point of dating that I’ve been missing is that I’m not as selective as I should be, and instead become too compassionate and accommodating. I’m naturally a person that cares for the marginalized, weak, and underdogs. “Oh, your dad was really mean to you and that’s why you treat men poorly? Well, I’m going to show you how well a man can treat you so you could learn it’s not all men.” The outcome of that is that I treat her like a goddess while I get treated like garbage. Hmm...the gears of insight are running right now.

🐝 Bees 🐝 (they/them) Autism resources in bio #stoptheshock #NothingAboutUsWithoutUs said:

Incidentally I forgot to say it on there but I have been told I'm a lot less conventional in the intimacy department than most, not full on rubber chicken but not boring by any means.

Thank you for helping us out! Keep up the good work, and don't be afraid to bring out the rubber chicken if you feel inclined to do so.

Thank you for your input and appreciate the support.

That sounds like terrible loss, but I'm happy you had those years with him.  I hope you're doing okay ️

Oh wow!  Well, I'm not surprised all your friends are autistic.  We have a knack of finding each other and there is growing evidence that the communication differences are no "deficit" at all between autistic people because we are naturally on the same wave length.

And the pattern of ending up in abusive relationships isn't unusual. Apart from anything in your own back ground like your father, we often don't see through motives and don't see the exploitation coming.

Personally, I have close relationships with both autistic and NT people.  With the right NT people (and my best friend is) we find that we can both benefit from each other's very different perspectives and can give each other insights neither of us would get elsewhere. Two of my ex-boyfriends from my youth and with whom I am still mates turned out to be autistic - quelle surprise!  Knew there was a reason we were drawn to each other, lol.

And errrr.... as per AuTriker's point, who said autistic women aren't spicy?  LOL not going to give a way too much but sex between two autistic people - well, I can tell you from experience that can be the most fun you can have without actually laughing ;-)

I'd say don't close your mind to any romantic opportunity but be very aware of the negative experiences you've had in the past and take it slow.  Not all NT women will be abusive, but their behaviour over time will tell.  It may help to have a trusted NT friend to talk to, sometimes they spot ulterior motive and abusive behaviour way before we do and an honest friend will point that out.  

All that said, the place where the differences between NT/ND romantic partners might be evident - potentially more beneficial to you - is outside the bedroom.  It is rather nice to have your communication style immediately understood by your partner and to know it's always perfectly fine to ask and answer blunt questions without anyone taking offence, or to just understand and be understood when one of you has just had too much of people today and wants to go loose themselves in some hyper focused hobby.

All My Friends Are Autistic said:

I was betting on growing my social circle through them, but considering that my friend said that I wouldn’t match well with an autistic woman, I’m now having doubts of finding a romantic partner in said avenues.

I'd say take friends where you can find them, take lovers where you can find them. Life throws you fewer and fewer social optunities as single man in middle age ... so you can't afford to write off possibilities lightly.

as TP once said - "Just erotic. Nothing kinky. It's the difference between using a feather and using a chicken."

I think the question isn't dating autistic or not autistic woman. It's about your needs, lifestyle, ambitions, personality ext .. I can relate very well to being in unhealthy relationships, my mom was a narcissist after all. I don't think that simply dating an autistic person would magically save me from abuse. Anyone can be an abuser. The abuser can be autistic, psychologist, social worker, philosopher, human rights activists, a nurse or belong to any group of who might seem like abuse wouldn't fit their stereotype. I fell for this before myself telling myself "oh my partner is autistic, he can't lie! I must be imagining it" Well he lied a lot. "Oh my partner is a feminist, she can't be unfair to me, I must be imagining it" well.. "oh she's an activist, seems very well educated and knowledgeable, she can't be manipulative, I must be imagining it". Well, I learned the hard way that no one is immune to being an abuser or manipulater, and it's not the important question. The important question to ask the self "how do I feel around this person?" And believe what you answer yourself over any fact about this person that might make your feelings "nonsense". It doesn't matter if it's nonsense or not, what matters is how you feel around your possible future partner. They might be amazing but can't make YOU feel understood, cared for. They might have a very strong sense for justice but can't make YOU feel like things are fair in the relationship. They might know all about trauma and psychology but YOU just see yourself falling more and more in depression with them. Your feelings don't have to make sense to be true, just believe them even if the brain says "but this doesn't make sense, they can't be doing that because they are this and that!", well since your gut says that it feels like it's happening to you, then it doesn't matter if they actually are doing it to you or not. 

I have created sort of "phases plan" while meeting others to simply protect myself. Phase one "stranger" which is about 5 face-to-face meetings. Here I just need to focus on my gut feeling while I'm talking to them, and I need to make sure that this isn't a racist, sexist, homophobic or a regressive person in anyway. After 5 successful meetings "potential friend" phase starts, this is usually when others start to reveal their true intentions behind spending time with you "friendship, sex, work interest, money borrowing, romantic interest or maybe they call you when they feel lonely and bored but nothing deeper than that...". I'd still focus on my feelings around the person and on my needs. How possibly a relationship with them could be good for me?. I decide wether to start a romantic relationship with someone or not long time after meeting them (some time after we actually become friends). I need to make sure that I have consistently felt good around them without sudden changes. Abusers can make you feel amazing for a while but once they sense your trust in them, the true face appears, keep an eye on how you feel around others even if you already trust them specially if you know them and actively meet them for less than a year. If there's unexplained sudden change, well don't blame yourself for it, instead consider re-evaluation of the trust that you gave them. In the very first few meetings with someone "stranger", a simple comment that makes me uncomfortable is enough for me to never see them again. I don't give someone in the stranger phase any chances. One person asked me in the first meeting "do you ever wear makeup?" Which might be very innocent question but it felt intrusive to me and it was enough to not waste my time with a stranger who already made me feel uncomfortable once. In the potential friend phase I'd give them a chance and maybe talk and explain, but the second time my gut tells me "it doesn't feel good around this person" I'd just stop seeing them, they aren't a friend uet after all. I actually have a journal and I write how it felt around someone after we have met. It helps me organise my thoughts and reveals my feelings to me. It helps me to make decisions and protect myself.

You might feel amazing and continue to feel amazing around an NT and might find and abuser who's an Aspie (I did). So don't look for the easy answer, people are individuals and they are really different. The only compass you can rely on in finding a partner is your feelings. 

I think autistic women can be spicy, can be adventurous or whatever. We’re all different, not just dull and boring like a lot of people think. I think you should try dating just to find out for yourself. You don’t really have anything to lose and could gain a lovely partner from trying this. It could be the best decision you make. I’ve dated both, autistic and NTs but found better results with autistic partners as they understood me better and I understood them better. My last boyfriend was autistic and we were also best friends, soul mates I would go so far to say. He sadly died in a car crash but he was my best 6 years. So do try, because you might meet the best person of your life. Good luck. :)

Regarding the autistic sex post: I have been told I'm a bit wild. However, I learned that I'm autistic very recently, so that wasn't the driving factor. The driving factor was a post on reddit where someone made a post about hunting for autistic women because they had a reputation of being wild in bed, along with many comments agreeing with OP. It made me wonder, so I started the discussion on autistic sex reputation to see if it was a commonly held idea.

You're right. I am looking for a simple answer, but I am reminded that reality is more nuanced. I acknowledge that my social awareness and ideas are not perfectly aligned with modern norms. I appreciate the safe space and responses because it helps me think things through to a more reasonable conclusion rather than acting out on stereotypes and what not. This forum is a good way to keep me in check, and the responses to my possibly unintentionally offensive questions are quite helpful at adjusting my way of thinking and behaviors. After all, I am autistic and clearly have some difficulties in the social field. I mean no offense or harm, soley trying to navigate this world.

Haha is this why you started the discussion about sex reputation of autistic people?

Again in this discussion it seems like you are looking for an easy answer, a stereotype. It simply doesn't exist.

AMFAA wrote the original post in that thread tbh. https://community.autism.org.uk/f/adults-on-the-autistic-spectrum/31567/autistic-sex-reputation-nsfw/
but I take your meaning. Incidentally I forgot to say it on there but I have been told I'm a lot less conventional in the intimacy department than most, not full on rubber chicken but not boring by any means.

OMG lol that thread was a hoot!

Yeah, their special focus is on PTSD, so they're not updated on the neurodiversity movement, and I can tell that she sees autism as a disability rather than a different way of thinking.  They're great people, and I've been trying to educate them, but if I let loose, I'll infodump which is off-putting.  Perhaps, her comment was more of a reflection of her current attitudes towards her marriage, so I'll try to work with him to be a bit more "spicy" so that they could be happier.  I agree that he is a bit...calm and doesn't take many risks or stands out, but his steadiness keeps that family healthy.

Thanks for the advice!  I really appreciate it.  Sometimes I think I'm crazy and doubt my ideas, so it's helpful to know that others think similarly.

What makes her think autistic women can't be "spicy"? We are all different - haven't you seen the recent thread on autistic sex reputation NSFW?! Plus also, if you are looking for someone different from your previous partners, does she really have to be "spicy"? Autistic doesn't mean dull and vanilla. What do you have to lose from trying to date autistic women and see how it goes?

Thank you! 

Sorry, I don't have advice.  Just want to say, good luck. :-)