GB News (New British News Network)

There are no heroes on either side of the political divide. There are, however, scores of villains.

Here are the historical facts: 

1. The *** were ardent socialists (hence the term "National socialism").
2. They believed in free health care and guaranteed jobs.
3. They confiscated inherited wealth and spent vast sums on public education.
4. They purged the church from public policy, promoted a new form of pagan spirituality.
5. They *** declared war on smoking, supported abortion, euthanasia, and gun control.
6. They loathed the free market, provided generous pensions for the elderly.
7. They maintained a strict racial quota system in their universities--where campus speech codes were all the rage.
8. They led the world in organic farming and alternative medicine. 
9. Hitler was a strict vegetarian.
10. Himmler was an animal rights activist.

Fascism was an international movement that appeared in different forms in different countries, depending on the vagaries of national culture and temperament.  Woke supremacy is as malign as white supremacy because they share the same nefarious intellectual roots. It is hard to deny the similarities between modern progressivism and classical fascism. In the early 20th century, fascism appeared as genocidal racism within the socialist movements of Europe.  In the late 20th century and early 21st century it has taken on a "friendlier" form.  If we can't learn from the past, we are doomed to keep repeating the same horrors and injustices in the future.

Lefty, shlefty, who cares. With the ***, who wanted to create the perfect society and a perfected humanity, it is by their fruits that you know them.

Opponents to the Nazi regime soon started 'disappearing.' That's not lefty, nor rightly, that's totalitarianism. Wilhem Reich always said it didn't matter whether a movement was left or right, you had to watch how it treated its dissidents. And whether or not it needs scapegoats. 

Humans deemed a drain on society were soon being quietly taken away and euthanized for the good of this perfect society, children too. Including those with autism.........

Those who traditionally voted Labour but swung to the Tories should have focused on changing Labour instead of selling the UK down the river. To yet more inequality, poverty, the scapegoating of the poor. And currently bankruptcy of farmers and fishermen and any other kind of small business that needed to be able to trade with Europe. The right to trade, work and live in 27 other countries That too is a well-known tactic of those who don't generally have the best interests of its people at heart - appealing to nationalism, which some define as a form of narcissism. I am poor, I am uneducated, I will never climb out of the inner-city hole/decaying seaside town I was born in, but hey..... I am British (bang chest). Now where are those furriners I can go and blame for all those woes. Let's twist everything round and listen to those spewing out hate and disinformation from the trolls farms to help appease my sense of aggrievement and make out it is the very people who wanted more equality who are to blame. 

Nexus11 said:

I am poor, I am uneducated, I will never climb out of the inner-city hole/decaying seaside town I was born in, but hey..... I am British (bang chest).

Of course, it's the people who are wrong. They're just too stupid, too uneducated and too racist to vote for us.

I used to think political parties were supposed to represent the will of the people who support it, but obviously not in the case of the Labour party. It's the other way round, it's the people's job to represent and support the will of the Party. But they're just too dumb and attached to their working-class seaside towns to know what's good for them, right?

I would never want to be a member of a political party whose members held those kind of views. 

The reasons why conservatives were against universal education prior to the Butler Act was because they didn't want the average Joe exercising or developing their brain, thus knowing how the system, at the time, worked. In other words, they didn't want the plebs to know they were plebs.

Caelus said:

to be fair i can see why anyone would be against the public education system.... its useless... it doesnt teach, it cant even control the classes as the students are always rioting. there is no learning in our current public education system, no discipline. no control. and the teachers are very biased and cowardly and reward the popular trash students that cause all the trouble by giving them ramped up grades they didnt even earn when they can barely even read or write to primary school levels.

And that is how they'd like to keep it........ unless of course you are paying for private education, where profits can be made and you create an elitist, upper-class establishment who go to ' the best schools ' and go on to fill all the most important or lucrative positions in society.  It is based largely on selfishness & childishness. 

Plastic said:

Depends if you like gang rape, crime and hand grenades going off.

Every country has crime though I don't see what it has to do with what we are discussing. I know that crime usually increases under every conservative gov. That is because of their outdated Thatcherite ideology and her favourite ( and every other outdated right-wing gov's ) economist, Hayek, whom proposed brutal austerity during recessions instead of austerity during boom times ( Keynes ). That ideology is what drives wages and standards of living down, poverty, mental health crisis & crime up whilst lowering taxes for the rich, cutting funding for public services and increasing profits for the richest. 

Plastic said:

You have no idea of cause and effect and how the finances work.

I know more than enough that doesn't involve simple-minded, 3-word slogans from millionaire and billionaire funded right-wing media. 

to be fair i can see why anyone would be against the public education system.... its useless... it doesnt teach, it cant even control the classes as the students are always rioting. there is no learning in our current public education system, no discipline. no control. and the teachers are very biased and cowardly and reward the popular trash students that cause all the trouble by giving them ramped up grades they didnt even earn when they can barely even read or write to primary school levels.

How often are there grenades going off there? All the time? Really?

Gang rape and crime are prevalent enough in the UK as far as I know. Especially knifings. 

Turtle said:

Public buildings were failing down after 20 years of conservatives.

You have no idea of cause and effect and how the finances work.

Turtle said:

They still have higher standard of living than us no matter how you wish to twist it to suit your view

Depends if you like gang rape, crime and hand grenades going off.

Blair wasn't a Tory but he wouldn't have looked out of place in Edward Heath's administration. It was Major who started the PFI's and Blair continued them. Blair was no lefty. 

Public buildings were failing down after 20 years of conservatives. I saw it with my own eyes. It wasn't until Labour got in, everything had to be modernised like other 1st world countries. From WWII the Tories have been in power the majority of time. What did they do in all that time ? They were against universal education & healthcare from the start. They are against everything apart from feathering their own nests. 

but yet wasnt that because before labour left, tony blair made sure to privatise half of the NHS? ... of which ofcourse that caused all of its problems down the line, not in his rule.... so ofcourse its gonna look like all the problems were based on tories 20 years in power, because tony blair privatised half of it before he left which then caused its downfall and neglect and mismanagement..... even hard core lefties acknowledge this fact, but yet brush it off by claiming tony blair was somehow a tory himself because they dont want to take responsibility for it lol

They still have higher standard of living than us no matter how you wish to twist it to suit your view. Furthermore, Germany does too and all their education is free.

Plastic said:

The left try to blame the government for the NHS but it was them that saddled each trust with Billions of debt which could never be repaid.

Not so sure about that but after 20 years of the Tories, Hospitals were literally falling down and Labour had to repair & rebuild Hospitals, schools, and many other public buildings and it will be the same story when the Tories leave office again. 

I learned a hard lesson in the 1980's.

If you don't produce anything, you cannot have anything unless you steal or sell off the family silver.

I watched the U.K. in the 1980's import a vast horde of "new people", who in turn swiftly established their own economy and laws to govern themselves, rather than "integrating" as we were led to expect. I have made friends in that society, which is how I know, and have observed that process up close, whereas most of the people who scream "RAYCIIIS" at me are kept as far from the knowledge as possible. (They are after all the screaming type and might object, so they are kept busy screaming elsewhere)

The one good thing about being "marginalised from birth" is that one becomes adept at simply observing and keeping ones mouth shut for most of the time.

IN the later eighties and early nineties we did indeed sell off the family silver, being raw materials and then the means of production, but we kept out currency artifiicially high. This eventually meant that pretty much anyone could come here and in a few short years of hard work earn enough to go home and buy themselves a decent "stake" in their lives, whilst significantly undercutting the natives (us!) 

This has had a knock on effect where for U.K. born people the competition, which IS fuelled by grants, and a slanted "benefits system" which favours those who it perceives to be "disadvantaged" over those who need to have their forms lost at every turn or their claims denied..

For the indigenous people portrayed as dumb racists at every turn in the media, who's systems which their forefathers paid for in blood suddenly started working in the favour of the visitors rather than themselves, double-think and cognitive dissonance was to become the new normal. 

It took me a long time to realise that there is a reason things panned out this way, the very breadth & sophistication of the attack on U.K. sovereignty, (a test run for what is underway in the U.S. right now) and remorseless unity of purpose became apparent to me a long time ago. 

To even speak of my observations is of course now considered hate speech. I don't know why, when I say "I saw the rain come down" or "step away from that ledge or you will fall" those observations are O.K. but when I observe what has clearly been done to the social and political life of the U.K. during a half century of passive observation, that's held to be wrong! 

SO WRONG IN FACT, that a couple of years ago, both my partner and my child deemed my political conversation to be "unacceptable", to the extent that it would threaten the security of my relationships if I persisted in using my speech for expressing my thoughts and opinions.

Now THAT made me sit up and take notice I can tell you. 

Well to be honest, I don't value my opinions anywhere like as much as I value my home life, so it was a very easy & quick adjustment to make, but when did external matters like Brexit or Donald Trump become more important than family to the normal people? And how was that achieved? 

For those who have observed similar events and would like the answers Vince Packard wrote some excellent books on the subject. I always recommend "The Hidden Persuaders" as an excellent primer to how mass mind manipulation is achieved by single digit numbers of people all the time, and constantly. Until that stuff is brought into the light and dealt with as it should be, you will all be unknowing prey for these people.  

For the rest of you trapped in the simplistic left/right party paradigms displayed all over this thread where your energies are wasted flailing away at each other than the real problems, a few of you need to be reminded that you have no business attacking the person promulgamating the beliefs you find abhorrent, and indeed you'll just spin your wheels, as was intended by those who set up that left/right paradigm in the beginning. 

Try NOT to take all of this too seriously. There isn't much such a disorganised group such as ourselves can do, except try and face it all with good grace..

I'm trying to find a link to the information published last year - but magically, no matter what I search in google, it only gives me UK covid stuff.

Well no I don't know it's a lie, you obviously do seem to think so

Seriously?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=udqrpYbArCI

Well know I don't know.

They insulate their houses and cars properly is what I heard.

mismanagement, tony blair ruined the nhs and half privatized it and ever since the nhs have been mismanaging money and wasting great sums of money to skiff off to their private managers who steal it all.

also scandanavian countries have less population and thus less people to use the services. more people using services means much higher cost of the service.... you cannot run a health service for 60 million people plus with silly ideology the expectancy to be the worlds hospital and treat all 8 billion humans on the planet for free and compare it to the cost of a countrys health service that only runs it for 1 million people lol

That's actually a lie.    And you know it.    Since benefiting from so much enrichment via the EU, the Scandinavian countries have no money left to even heat their old people's homes.

Ah yes, the magic money tree and the Real World.

If this is the way it is, how come there are countries that successfully do use taxes to fund education, housing, welfare and health services? Most Scandinavian countries seem to be quietly be able to do it without generating vast national debts. They can make it work Why can't the UK? 

You really ought to look into funding problems.

All local councils are broke.    They are at the mercy of developers to give them cash every year just to pay for the increasing maintenance liabilities built since WW2.

Every new development adds more liabilities which will come home to roost in about 20 years.    Councils provide 'services' with a few quid left over.

There is NO MONEY to build council houses.     

The NHS is deliberately badly run and is financially out of control - always has been..

The left try to blame the government for the NHS but it was them that saddled each trust with Billions of debt which could never be repaid.

And I'm afraid that you simply have no idea about taxation - the usual child-like 'soak the rich' ideology without a clue about how finances work.    It's an annoying shame that a vast chunk of the population are so blind to the reality of the world and are so entrenched in 1960s dogma.

If I were religious, this would be my prayer:

God grant me the serenity to accept and avoid dogmatic people, the courage to not waste my time and energy on them when there are other people who need my time and energy, and the wisdom to know that I can't cut through social and political conditioning. Amen.

And with this, I wish you a very good day and wish us many other happy conversations on topics not related to politics.

Looks like something, somewhere has hit a nerve.

Mykal. Why would anyone vote for a party that wants to sell off the NHS. Increase austerity so that the sick and unemployed are pushed further into a wall. Slash education budgets. Keep the minimum wage low, whilst creating more tax havens for the super rich, who really and truly do look down on the working classes, that is anyone who is just surviving and for whom any setback may be sending them on their way to beg for food parcels. 

Looks like something, somewhere has hit a nerve.

Mykal. Why would anyone vote for a party that wants to sell off the NHS. Increase austerity so that the sick and unemployed are pushed further into a wall. Slash education budgets. Keep the minimum wage low, whilst creating more tax havens for the super rich, who really and truly do look down on the working classes, that is anyone who is just surviving and for whom any setback may be sending them on their way to beg for food parcels. 

Unknown said:

When someone makes statements like these, Turtle, claiming they know your motivations, know how you feel, know what you think, or know what you want, it's a very clear form of covert verbal abuse. Like suggesting to someone they have a mental health condition because you don't agree with their world view.

If you are doing it intentionally, then it's a very sinister trait indeed.  As this is now a repeated behaviour you engage in, I won't be engaging with in any further discussions on this topic or others. 

I don't know what statements you are referring to. YOU started this topic or thread for what reason ? Was it for people to argue ? Was it for attention ? I could be wrong, but from what I gather it is about journalism and the media ? If so, I haven't found anything you have posted thus far about journalism or the media in any way enlightening, beneficial, new or progressive to human beings in general ? What is your intention or point ? That's how i work. How do you operate ?

Am I missing something ?

Your judgments about another person say more about your own character than the character of the person you are pointing a finger at. 

When someone makes statements like these, Turtle, claiming they know your motivations, know how you feel, know what you think, or know what you want, it's a very clear form of covert verbal abuse. Like suggesting to someone they have a mental health condition because you don't agree with their world view.

If you are doing it intentionally, then it's a very sinister trait indeed.  As this is now a repeated behaviour you engage in, I won't be engaging with in any further discussions on this topic or others. 

Finally something I can agree with. Having spent decades in an abusive pseudo religious cult I can say that the first part of recovery is loosing the vocabulary. Trumpist words like woke and cancel culture control thought, and perhaps this side of the fence uses similar jibber jabber words, meaningless political brainwashing propaganda words...

I know we all think we're not brainwashed but I have to say that all people are to some degree or another. Words are the key to controlling people.

Turtle said:

Johnny Furriner,

You're even using the same derisive political slang as one another. Too much time in the same echo chambers?

I do not and will not have any fake accounts.  I prefer to stick to the facts. I don't need anything for that. 

Oh, so that didn't last long, did it now? You're back to your old tricks, aidie, downvoting me. Would you like me to expose your new fake account? Or do you want to try and delete it first?

I have not yet had a chance. It would require me to watch more T.V. than I do.

I'm already maxed out with information coming in.

Unknown said:

Turtle, the trouble with viewing everything through such a narrow partisan lens of hatred for the other side, is that you stupidly find yourself defending positions and taking stances on issues NOT because of any real conviction, but simply because it is the opposite to what the other side.

That could be very true,( for those not capable of thinking  for themselves or actually believing  3 word slogans which is why I always ask such persons what would they like to  see happen in the future ? What would they change ? what would they do differently ? 

It is one thing complaining and then taking sides, but it is a whole different story to ask yourself who you are ? 

I Sperg said:

Why not give it a chance before we condemn it out of hand just on the adverts?

You don't get it yet. 

Actually, I bet all the above will have to be salted with a bit of truth, just to add much needed credibility.

Why not give it a chance before we condemn it out of hand just on the adverts? Anyway, a disquieting amount of "fake news" and "conspiracy theory" turns out to be factual these days, doncha know?

4 little words: Jane. Standley. Building. Seven. That's fake news for you...

Unknown said:

If you're going to use other countries as a comparison, you need to first make sure your facts are accurate, Turtle.

Which facts are inaccurate ? I never mentioned German Health Care as far as I'm aware ? I did mention German Education though and that is free from cradle to grave for all German citizens, as it is in most Nordic countries. In the Uk you can pay up to £9,000 per year just for a degree. So £27,000 + accommodation + living expenses etc etc.  On top of that, all the above mentioned countries enjoy a higher standard of living, the benefit system is less brutal, maternity leave for both parents longer, state supported and funded up to 18 months in some countries I believe and kids don't start school to later ( something I believe you had made comments on previously regarding kids not having time to be kids ). 

I think we also work longer hours than most EU countries.

Hysterical people, those who thrive on drama and attention-seeking and self-centered people,  don't like facts or reality though do they ? That is the targeted audience of hate-filled, propaganda.  

But I can guarantee you now that not one of these topics will be discussed on your shiny, new ' News ' network led by a right-wing propagandist ( for hire ) with dyed hair. 

All you'll be fed with is, Johnny Furriner, immigration, conspiracy theories not facts, Thatcherite ignorant and arrogant  kitchen table economics of austerity and other scare-mongering of fiscal debt/who is going to pay for all this/ there is no magic money tree and of course, the right-wing always need a bogey man to rule by fear so I imagine it will be ' the big bad EU ' or until they find another candidate.  

So the trickle down effect is an unimpeachable article of faith up there with the Ten commandments is it?

Only trouble is, I don't see much of this trickling down, actually trickling down. Do you? Truly? 

That maybe the case or not, but there is no getting away from the fact that you are knowingly stirring=up things here for self-attention. You have absolutely no interest or care about  the topics you discuss. You know this yourself. 

No. It hasn't. Never had any argument about that. 

I have no argument with any of this!

The wonder of this is that some people apparently do. 

Unless you learn to face your own shadows, Turtle, you will continue to see them in others, because the world outside you is only a reflection of the world inside you.

Unknown said:

That would be Edward Health, the Conservative Prime Minister? Whose Government took us into the EU despite ferocious opposition from the then Labour Party?

That's correct. It's quite ironic that those who took us in, were those who took us out .... but for none of the reasons why they took us in. They were different times. Politics can change in one minute  though it takes their supporters a lifetime or more. 

If you were generally interested in the subject, instead of trying to score points, that would be much better. It would be much better for the forum and everyone else involved.  Looking up Wikipedia or the internet does not make you an intellectual or specialist on any subject.

It doesn't matter how many times you say Hitler and fascism was connected to Socialism and you wish to pursue that line, it still does not make it true. Hitler murdered Socialists & Communists along with anyone else who would oppose him. This is not controversial. These are facts.   

The 1970's was a very different world than which we live today. Two, so called, superpowers were dominating the world stage - The Soviet Union and the US and their allies. 

Before WWII it was everyman for themselves in the global chess game, i.e empires,  Royalty.  dictatorships etc and other countries ruled by religious dogma and other imaginations of the ego.   

There were many things that changed the world in that era but not many of them were right-wing things if you are talking about human progress. 

In all, you , if you had a conscience (everyone ) would never vote conserc=vative  ever again.

The rest is not great either, but that is reality.

If you're going to use other countries as a comparison, you need to first make sure your facts are accurate, Turtle.

Germans (only legal residents) are entitled to free “medically necessary” public healthcare, which is funded by social security contributions. However, citizens must still have either state or private health insurance, covering at least hospital and outpatient medical treatment and pregnancy.

moving-to-germany/healthcare

There are some points, young I Sperg that I have to agree with.

Britain, under the guidance of 'That Woman' stopped making stuff to sell and started buying and selling old houses. I have never understood how that's an exchangeable product, OK yes a house upgraded is worth more than a clapped out one, but this is fashion, ripping out the green bath and putting an uncomfortable square one in it's place. Taking out the sad looking beige carpet and putting sadder grey carpet down. Real riches for those that have the cash to buy houses at auction. 

The Tories are still selling off the jewels, Cadbury's Boots Morrisons Asda, all getting flogged off to outside owners who can't be bothered to pay their taxes or give their staff a decent contract.

Thatcher did a lot to destroy this country and Blair too. 

I do think you're right that the planet is being divided, in readiness of conquering I have no doubt, by is it Russia, China or Azerbaijan? The Arab spring fired by FB, Trump was divisive, so was Brexit and Boris and a Scottish independence referendum, all ways to divide the people and divert their attention. 

What from? Who is rubbing their hands together giggling like an undertaker at a train crash?