Published on 12, July, 2020
How my other autistics experience this. You go into a room full of people and your brain gets overload with all the information thats coming into it. You stay as long as you have too/can then later all of this processing of that information comes flooding to the for front of your mind and then you starting seeing the associations between the information you just picked up and everything else you know? As a consequence you develop a phobia about going into similar situations as you know the toll it can take and the pointless wasted but obsessive thinking that will go into processing what is essentially nonsense.
I really only suffer large groups for specific purposes. Like work. But yes on the latent effect of processing everything. Thinking about the function of language today. Whole massive topic. I'm not sure I have a phobia, but I'm very particular about my limits and boundaries and when I escape. Maybe you could explain your experience further?
OK here goes, I'll try to leave specifics out for other peoples sake. Id go to work, and it would be an office room filled with lots of different people. All talking all going about their business, lots of noises, smells, conversations and interactions. Lots and lots of stuff going on. I am absorbing all of it like a bloody antenna (its automatic) and I don't have alot of processing bandwidth left to do my own work. I can't concentrate on what I am doing as my brain is processing everything in my environment automatically but I don't really have any idea exactly what is figuring out, that comes much later. Time passes and suddenly deductions from all that data flood my mind.I could be in the middle of something else after work hours, in the shower or in bed, even asleep. I figure stuff out that I didn't even know I was thinking about and then when I become consciously aware of what I've figured out I start trying to order everything and connect everything that I have learnt automatically and I can't stop my brain from doing it. Now I have a large web of information that all interconnected and constantly getting up dated every time I go into the same situation (Its usually all NT related bullshit). I struggle to get some processing time for my own work and personal activities even after work. Its like I have lost ownership of my mind. Also because I can't really understand peoples motives, ambitions, agendas etc I seem to gradually figure everything out over time and its usually things that I couldn't possibly have known but I think due to bottom up processing. People in general don't understand the information they leak (probably mainly NT people) can be used over long time scales to build up a picture of things related to them. Every little word, movement, tone, is a little piece of information that I suck up (because I am an antenna) and with enough processing and enough time everything is revealed. The stuff I learn I don't even give a *** about. Its just something that happens usually when I am around lots of other people and stuff is happening. I wish could turn it off and only use it for valuable things. Does that give you a better picture of what I mean?
To avoid this I basically have to have 0 human contact for at least 3 days and when that happens I am completely empty and at peace. Its a wonderful state to be in like nirvana or something.
It sounds like you're constantly making calculations? I've had scenarios where sometimes an interaction won't be triggered until years later after I learn something about NT schemes and plots and social nuances.
Here's a few thoughts. They might be off, just my own experience (this stuff can keep me awake!)
1. The first time someone told me no one died and made me God it was a huge relief. Live and let live sort of thing. I'm not the saviour/super-hero of the planet. Everyone has a responsibly to themselves and - what I started telling my son as he got older - if we all were just responsible for/toward ONLY 2 people, think of how fluidly this planet would run. That isn't just an ideal, but I only have the capacity to invest into a few people. You've said you're aware you're not even concerned about this. I have to remind myself: Not my circus, Not my monkeys (I like this phrase too). You're not mine to fix.
The idea that I need to mind or care for or fix or mend everyone around me can be taught in a warped way in childhood. We can grow up concerned about everyone else but ourselves. Deny our needs for everyone else. A negative idea of being selfish might be implanted in childhood or a narcissistic parent was involved or a myriad of other things can create this. Most individuals have to learn to self-care. The calculating won't go away, but it can be intentionally directed at useful dilemmas.
2. Another possibility and what has also helped, is literally diving into sociology, philosophy, psychology in my downtime. The big stuff, not the self-help stuff, which tends to leave out the underlying constructed arguments it's built on. Jung, Kant, Deleuze, Erich Fromm, and so on. I've read into religion as well and a Thomas Merton book I read over 20 years ago came to mind in a conversation today. How this has helped: The more I understand, the less I need to puzzle / problem solve. I begin to see the systems/concepts presented more immediately because I have the fundamental tools / knowledge to understand the complexities. With most NTs, this can be a source of great anxiety. For me, the more complex the philosophy (so long as it's sound), the more at ease I feel.
This isn't a quick fix. But over time it has really helped. If I start recollecting humans actions/words, I can skip to the summary. less time invested. However, is there something in you which desires to connect with these people? When I feel disconnected it's easy to forget that splitting my investment of time and energy into too many people means I'm not protecting time that's just for my few close friends. There's always a consequence. Sometimes I have to eternalise (say out loud) out who I care about protecting and investing in. Sometimes I have to self-discipline and talk to myself out loud in 3rd person. LOL
3. The overwhelming environment is another matter.
Maybe this helps? Sorry it's long. If I'm completely off, my apologies!!!
I am completely lost. If you look at deepthoughts postman that demonstrates what my actually problem is the one I started this discussion about.
It does seem like we're having an incredible amount of difficulty communicating. From some of the other things added into this thread, I believe I misunderstood your initial post. It sounds like you have a continual Echo in your head from the days events. I misunderstood what you meant by 'processing' and 'obsessing'. One experience I responded with has to do with continual problem-solving.
I might hesitate to assume someone is giving non-autistic advice and maybe start with the assumption that they are responding to a different problem and that we aren't communicating. At least on a board such as this. You're right in that you don't know my story and how far I've come just from my early 20s to be able to write in complete sentences and to be able to (if slowly) articulate what's in my head. Symbolic Logic helped me a great deal. Also learning to use specific phrases to help another 'hear' me such as "in my experience" or "If I'm completely off, my apologies". I use them because I genuinely mean them.
I do believe Ethics applies to all humans (the first part of my response which was off) and it does seem like Autistic individuals can spot them more quickly, to be honest. Many of us here on this community have experienced Isolation due to language problems. I'd hate to reinforce that as I certainly don't enjoy feeling that I cannot be heard/seen by anyone.
I'm not reading between the lines. Surely that involves putting yourself in another persons shoes and imagining what would motivate them to say/do something based on an understanding of their motives and nature. Instead I have to use something like Bayesian reasoning to come to conclusions. I read/observe something then come up with different possibilities of why a person would write it not based on an understanding of the person (I don't know you) but rather logically plausible reasons of why someone/anyone (not a specific person) would write something/do like that. I'm substituting basic logic for human motivations which never actually works on the first stab, and the fact I didn't understand you were just sharing your experiences shows my lack of ability to put myself in other peoples shoes. In this case at least to me you seemed to be suggesting possible explanations/solutions that didn't involved aspects of autism so logically that suggested to me that you might not think it did (I rarely get it right the first time, I have to try again and learn over time). I have explained what I have wrote to a clinician and they said that they did have other patients with the same problems. I have just never communicated with anyone else who has the same problem. I wish I didn't have it it makes it impractical being in those sorts of places.
JuniperFromGallifrey said:he can't sleep because he's problem-solving things that cannot be fixed.
This happens to me alot too which is a problem.
JuniperFromGallifrey said:There's a lot of things in society which are wildly unjust
Yes I totally agree with this statement as well. That's partly the reason I have an exceptionally small circle of people I say anything too. I don't want to get caught up in NT bullshit and need to maximise the predictability of future.
I generally think my autism designs the structure of my daily life as much as is possible. I feel like its a way of life for me and I couldn't live any other way.
I'm using the term 'calculation' similar to the term evaluate, reasoning, problem-solving, troubleshooting, etc. There's no judgement just a function. I use this term with my son when he can't sleep because he's problem-solving things that cannot be fixed. On rare occasions I'll take something to make it stop when it's out of control and 5 in the morning. I've gotten better at mind-full disciplines to stop the computations in my brain.
There's a lot of things in society which are wildly unjust. I think humans who assign racism when the problem is actually poverty or when cancel culture mislabel a problem - I think all this is suffocating and a form of fascism and makes it impossible to have conversations or impossible to operate without getting fired for an accidental misunderstanding. These things demote reasoning and education. What will medical staff look like in 10 years if this keeps up? The implications of demoting reasoning or misidentifying a problem / diagnosis could have a grave impact on the future.
NAS71674 said:Yeah its not a debate whether this is an autistic trait,
Oh! Did I say this directly somewhere? I had thought I was merely giving my experience... no intention of presupposing that or amusing it wasn't. I have a habit of encountering humans who like to read between the lines meanwhile I'm making every attempt to be as open and straightforward as possible...
JuniperFromGallifrey said:It sounds like you're constantly making calculations?
I'm not making calculations. It works how I described it. I think its more down to sensory issues and associative and latent thinking that can't be switched off for some people with ASD who actually experience it.
Thank you for the comments but I don't think you understand what I am saying maybe its a trait you haven't experienced. I guess thats why they call it a spectrum disorder.
JuniperFromGallifrey said:However, is there something in you which desires to connect with these people?
In a word no. They are usually very repulsive human beings (dont get me wrong, that sounds terrible probably, but I usually think of others as good and decent until I gradually learn over time if this is or is not the case with the examples I have personally experienced) with copious amounts of unpredictabiility about them/awful world views and approaches to daily life (thats part of the issue, you see through the masks these types of people present and see the real them over time, this is part of the processing, and also see the act in play) and I would never want anything to do with them. When I am not environments like that again I never think about them again.