Pathological Demand Avoidance -- could that be me?

Yes I still visit the site. Sorry I must have overlooked your other replies. What exactly do you want to know about the anxiety? The children I know with PDA tend to get angry very quickly when a demand is put on them. We see very challenging behaviour unless we use strategies to give instructions in a different way.

Binary, do you still visit this site?

I wanted to ask you a bit more about your view of the anxiety the children are experiencing when asked to do something. I can see now that my demand avoidance is anxiety based, and I am looking online to find out more about this.  Unfortunately there does not seem to be a great deal of research where adults are involved.

I like that part about social fraud because for a long time I have thought it was apparently up to me to break convention.

I am a very good liar (unfortunately?). Maybe because I prefer speaking the truth and especially when no one else says anything or dates say anything.

I think my dad has authority issues and anger issues. Things really had to go his way. My mum is a paychiatric patient and I don't think there was anything conventional about my upbringing

If I demand something of myself, I say No.  I have to look for other ways of asking myself to do things-- otherwise nothing gets done.

Hello Trainspotter

We have a few things in common. I can't accept things that don't fit with my view of what is right either.  I never thought that was abnormal because I was brought up that way -- my father was like that.  But I think he may have been a bit PDA as well. 

I keep hearing about work situations where people keep quiet about other people doing things that are not right, in order to keep their job. So if sticking to our values is autistic, then does that mean we have a social role in stopping fraud, abuse, dishonesty etc?  I wonder.

I haven't looked up autism in DSM or ICD so that is another bit of research I need to do. So I have no idea if there are multi-autistic diagnoses.  But I think all that is going to change eventually. 

I realise we are not supposed to say "Asperger's" any more because he was working for the ***.  But I am not sure whether this is fair.  There is someone online expressing the opinion that he may have continued to work for them because he wanted to find a way of saving the children -- which didn't really work.  But apparently he never did join the Nazi party.  Well, I suppose we'll never know the whole truth.

I had to do a lot of thinking to come up with a name.

Think maybe I am getting used to the site now but still don't understand why replies get put up above previous replies. Also why my other replies to you are not showing now.  But I was never very good at this stuff.

Went to therapy group today.  Haven't told them about the PDA thing.

Were your parents conventional or were either of them ever out of step?  My mother was more conventional than my father, but she was a musician and had some unconventional bits to her.  Otherwise don't know how she could have stayed married to him.

Do you still find that you do the pretend and distract things?  I think my autistic characteristics are the opposite -- everything has to be "real" and I can't pretend.  Well, occasionally I tell a lie, as a way of explaining why I didn't do something or didn't turn up, when I don't want to admit that I forgot!  As for distracting someone, I find I can't do that even if I want to.

Strange, how different we all are. 

I had a hard time finding a name :-) I just go 'blank' on a lot of stuff so decided to go by that

The site has many issues and many of us are seeing funny stuff happening with posts and answers.

I like your name!

My parents just thought I was difficult and I was, because I never walked in step with everyone else. Always out of step.

for some reason my reply has gone over the top of my first reply....I'll see if this one does the same...

I'll see if I can send you a friend request.

I think my parents thought I was awkward too -- but so was my dad!  He was thrown out of six schools in Germany and then he was sent to America -- the sort of thing they used to do with naughty boys back then.  He was very bright but he never finished his education and he didn't really have a career, although he did a lot of different jobs.  So maybe we both had some sort of PDA.. 

I am looking for a name to put in my profile, as you have done.

I tried to send you a friend request but can't for some reason.

My parents raised me very strictly and partly it may have helped me cope, partly it made me want to go against them :-)

Thanks and same to you!

Anytime you like. 

I'm really awful with instructions as I always immediately get the urge to do nothing or the exact opposite.

They called ne a 'difficult, stubborn' child.

Try to take care of yourself as best you can.  And that is a suggestion, not an instruction. I think you will be a valuable person for me to have a conversation with about this stuff.

Oh boy... now I suddenly know why I cannot follow recipes or step-by-step instructions... 

And I can tick most of the boxes, including the pretend and distract thing.

Got to let this one sink in a bit as there is nothing positive about this...

I do like what you say about everyone's autism being unique.  Diagnosis is just a label, and it is only useful if it brings with it some understanding -- and help.

If you read my reply to binary, you'll get a clearer account of what I think I have that fits the label.  I don't fit with all of it, just enough of it to make me think again about my past and the reasons why things were difficult.

I am sure you just wanted to reassure me in some way about the test, but I don't need reassuring about that!  A written test is something you pass or don't pass -- we could leave out the word "fail", but the test is there to tell you that you meet a certain number of the criteria the test creator has set, and your number is usually above or below a set of limits. 

I did not meet enough of the criteria for this test, but the descriptions in the test would fit someone with a more "obvious" autism than what I think I have.  Of course, there is some co-morbidity too -- anxiety, depression and EUPD.

I am not asking for a diagnosis yet.  I don't have a good opinion about the support being offered, and I don't want to be officially labelled unless I can get something from it.

Thanks for answering, sorry to be slow.  I had to reset my password!

I have recollections of childhood which I now wonder whether I misinterpreted.  My father was very difficult and I think he was emotionally abusive in a variety of ways.  I remember him constantly shouting at me to get up -- but I now wonder whether I could have been constantly refusing.

What you are saying about the children fits with this.  I have avoided things for most of my life -- including things I really wanted to do.  I have an absolute terror of getting things wrong, and that makes me avoid doing things, even when they are just to be done for me.  Again, I thought it was my dad making me feel "wrong" -- and I think he did do that.  But if I did have this condition, I may have needed everything to be right immediately and be terrified that it would not be.  And he may have added to that.

I can take instructions and do what someone else wants, if I trust them and I am doing it for something I am engaged in.  But I do sometimes get upset if someone is taking over and none of my suggestions are accepted. 

! don't think the other traits really fit me -- at least not the way they are described by Newson.  I don't pretend, or distract people.  I can have mood swings but I am not impulsive.  But I do have other things that fit with the AS -- my emotions are not like most people's, and I don't always respond to humour.

I hope this makes sense.

I will soon change my user name to something more friendly.

I think there are traits of PDA that are present in people with other autistic traits.  Which is probably why there is a move away from specific diagnoses and moving towards an all-encompassing term 'autism'.

Every autistic person is unique.  It is very unlikely that one autistic person has the complete range of traits.  Some traits may be absent, and others may be very noticeable.  This does not mean that a certain person is more 'severely' affected than another, it just means that the autism may or not be more noticeable or less noticeable. 

It can take a long time to recognise one's traits.  I am inclined to do many seemingly 'abnormal' things, and one of the things I cannot abide is something going against my idea of what is right and what is wrong, be that a deliberate lie or someone arguing with me because of the way I  choose to do things.  I am also sure I have some traits of PDA, such as not liking to be told what to do, under any circumstances.  I will certainly not take kindly when I am in the middle of something to be told to do something else, and conflicts of information really get to me,  This obviously has got me into trouble at work in times past.  I am ok when I make the decision, it is when things are taken from my control that affects me.

A diagnosis report could possibly contain some traits of other autistic conditions but not name them, because I don't think either of the manuals used by psychologists have really allowed for multi-autistic diagnoses, but I may be wrong in this.  Mine merely said I was autistic with an Asperger's profile.  The DSM has not used the term 'Aspergers' for several years, and it is being removed from the ICD along with other autistic conditions in the next revision.

The online test is not a diagnostic tool, and there is not a 'pass' or 'failure'.  It simply detects traits of autism and gives a good idea as to whether someone may or may not be autistic.  It is not foolproof but gives an indication as to whether an assessment may be worthwhile. 

And don't forget that depression and anxiety can also be symptoms of other conditions, such as bipolar condition, personality disorder and OCD which are co-morbid conditions with autism.  Have you mentioned your concerns to your doctor or other medical or psychological professional?

I don't personally but I have worked with children that have. It's a complicated condition. The main thing with it is that any kind of demand causes huge anxiety making many things inaccessible and leading to big reactions to small things. People with PDA generally can't take any kind of instruction and need everything to be done with deals, negotiations and alternative ways of asking. 

What traits do you have that you share with it?