Cognitive empathy is KNOWING how the other person feels and what they might be thinking. Emotional empathy is FEELING physically along with the other person, as though their emotions were contagious. Aspies are said to have more than normal levels of emotional empathy and less than normal levels of cognitive empathy. But if we can FEEL other people's feelings, doesn't this mean that we also KNOW how they are feeling? That's true for me, at least. What others are thinking is often a mystery to me. So maybe thoughts and emotions should not be clubbed under "cognitive empathy"?
Theory of mind is the ability to infer the full range of mental states (beliefs, desires, intenions, imagination, emotions, etc.) that causes action, or the ability to reflect on the contents of one's own and others' minds. Aspies are said to be lacking in this ability, or suffering from mindblindness. We are believed to think that if we feel/ perceive something, probably others do too and if we don't feel/ perceive something, probably others don't either. Eg. When playing hide and seek, thinking that if I can't see them, they can't see me. It has been speculated that mindblindness could simply be attributed to the differences between autistic and non-autistic thought processes, i.e. aspies could be less mind-blind with others like themselves.
I think the term "theory of mind" is problematic. I think it is too broad and encompass too many separate ideas. Aspies are said to have a reduced ability to read other people's social cues such as facial expressions or body language. I personally am highly perceptive about this. So either I was misdiagnosed as an aspie or at least some aspies are great at perceiving other people's body language/expressions, which may reflect on their emotions and intentions. But I still often do not know how to respond to them even if I understand what they're feeling. Are there other aspies here who can't relate to the idea that we can't perceive body language/expressions? What I fail to pick up on to be precise, are the ways other people think or process their emotions and the beliefs that they may hold.
Is it just me or does anyone else feel that there are contradictions and inaccuracies in these ideas about us currently held by the mainstream scientific community on us? Please correct me if I'm wrong. Your thoughts are much appreciated. Thank you all.
As with most aspects of autism there is not one accepted ‘Theory of Mind’ concept. It has been reported by some researchers that HFA and AS individuals believe themselves to have a higher level of emotional and behavioural perspicacity, than those who observe them - parents, teachers etc., who report them as having a lower ability. ASD people in the higher IQ bracket also compensate for a theory of mind deficit by memorising social and behavioural rules.
Some researchers posit that individuals with ASD have a limited awareness of self and others, whilst others posit the impairments are limited not global. I suspect both are true and it depends on the individual. I think that these problems are likely accounted for by a difficulty in self-conceptualisation of agency.
Deleted User said:ASD people in the higher IQ bracket also compensate for a theory of mind deficit by memorising social and behavioural rules.
I suppose this is about where I would fall. I have learned, through many years of trial, error and grief, to understand certain things. I can infer things from gestures and expressions - but usually only when they're at extremes. Anger, fear, etc. In other senses, I'm not good with either emotional or cognitive empathy. I know that I can feel sadness, grief, anger, boredom, excitement... but I struggle to both detect it and feel it in others. I misjudge things a lot, too. I still don't really understand flirtation signals, or when someone is bored with me or annoyed with me. I recently upset a colleague at work, and I'm still struggling to understand what it was all about. To me, it was all a joke. A trivial thing. Clearly not to her.
When I was at uni, I was friendly with a couple of other mature students who were married to one another. The man ended up having an affair with another mutual friend. It led to an acrimonious split, and the two having the affair both dropped out of their degrees and left. The wronged woman remained, and we kept friendly. One day, I saw - at a distance - another student who looked remarkably like the ex-husband. I casually mentioned it to my friend when I saw her later. I never gave it a thought. I couldn't understand that she was grieving over what had happened, and was hugely angry about it all. 'Why are you telling me this?' she growled. 'What on earth makes you think I would want to know?' I was shocked by the reaction. It took me a while, and mentioning it to others, for me to understand it. Even though such a thing has happened to me in life since, it still doesn't help me to empathise with it in others. I come out with the usual platitudes... which is basically me saying what I feel I ought to say rather than what I want to say.
I'm not sure if it's relevant... but it's one of the things I struggle with in writing fiction - and reading or watching fiction, come to that. I can't always grasp character motivations, though they might be obvious to other people. I'll watch, in a film, someone react in a certain way to something that another character has said or done, and I'm stymied. I need to have it explained to me. My ex used to find it infuriating - why I couldn't see why something I'd said or done would annoy her so much. When it finally came to an end, she told me I was incapable of a loving relationship because I was emotionally retarded.
I work in care. I care very much for the plight of vulnerable people - refugees, minorities, the sick and disabled, the homeless. I know fear, insecurity, persecution, bullying. Maybe it's just knowing those things, though, that provokes an 'empathetic' response. But maybe it isn't true empathy. Maybe it's just like a conditioned reflex. Something I've learned, but which doesn't come naturally at all.
In other respects, I'm highly sensitive emotionally. I can be distressed by seeing a dead bird or other animal in the road. I get acutely upset by the carelessness and thoughtlessness of others. Seeing a bed of flowers trampled cuts me to the quick. I couldn't even kill an insect. I can watch a fiction like The Snowman and be in floods of tears - even now. Some music can do the same for me, too. I can barely listen to Samuel Barber's Adagio because it is so exquisite and so heart-rending. And it doesn't have any other association for me. It just seems to encapsulate, for me, both joy and beauty, and grief. Everything that affects me to the point of tears.
This whole reply could have been written about me - I am EXACTLY like this. I over-empathise with movie characters - the situation is easier to understand in its context so if the character is different and innocent, I end up in floods of tears instantly - Dory in Finding Dory, David in A.I, etc. I am extremely affected by music - mostly unexpectedly - and I cannot control it.
I find dealing with emotional people very, very difficult.
So do I. I really don't know how to react. I'm not a 'huggy' person, so can't do that. If I find myself in a position where someone wants to hug me, it always feels awkward - like they're trying to prevent me from falling over. It's probably why I could never do something like dancing.
It creeps up on me in odd ways, though. I loved my ex-wife - or so I thought. Yet, within a year of our being married, I found it difficult being around her. But I loved the person she was - so sweet, kind, caring, thoughtful, gentle. A wonderful human being. And, deep down, I know I did love her. But I couldn't show it. When it finally came to an end, it was a relief for me. It broke her heart, but I was so coldly distant that I couldn't comfort her in any way. A protection mechanism, maybe. So we split, and I never saw her again, and it passed from my mind.
Then one day, over a year later, I was invited to the pub by some people from work. I was reluctant - a social thing, ugh! - but I went because I knew a drink would relax me. We sat talking about this and that, and I was okay. Then, suddenly, a song came on the juke box. It was Neil Diamond singing Mr Bojangles. I'd always loved his version of it, and I'd introduced it to my ex-wife when we were still just dating. She loved it, too. And the moment that opening bar played, I was suddenly in bits. Howling and crying my eyes out hysterically in a crowded pub. I was so distraught by it that my friends had to take me home and put me to bed.
Next day... it was as though nothing had happened. But 14 years later, I still find it hard to listen to that song.
I can't listen to Louis Armstrong 'What a Wonderful World' due to a traumatic experience 20 years ago. It even makes me tear-up just writing this. It's embarrassing for everyonearound if I hear it - I burst into floods of tears and whoever I'm with will have no idea why.
My dear friend,
I strongly urge you to watch this. It will give you a lot of answers.
In the NT world, there are the two kinds of empathy which you've already mentioned. Some people also add a third kind, compassionate empathy. We traditionally do not associate logical understanding with empathy. But as any Aspie will tell you, being logical IS empathetic, because we always arrive at good reasons to be good to the best of our capacity and we all essentially want a good world, don't we? We are different from psychopaths.
But I don't fully understand your position. I do feel other people's emotions. I have a high level of emotional empathy. But your post brought back a sudden rush of a shocking memory of my childhood when I was in a relatable position. It's not that accessible a memory. I may have been under 6. But I do remember noticing other kids seem to feel other people's emotions, knowing that I didn't, getting messages from the world that people who feel others' emotions are "good" at heart and those who didn't are "bad" and wishing that I felt other people's emotions too, because I genuinely wanted to be a "good" girl, which was important at that age.. I wanted to feel good about myself. At some point, I started pretending to feel other people's emotions.. At some point, I started really feeling them and then feeling them way more than I can handle. I don't think I brought this about consciously. It was just how my autism decided to develop. I personally feel that I was far better off when I couldn't feel other people's emotions.
Personal advise, stop listening to sad music. Try to surround yourself with positivity in any way you can.
Thank you for sharing. We don't express our emotions easily, because we feel them too intensely and feel the need to protect ourselves from that intensity. Our amygdala could be up to ten times larger than an NT's.