Moving away from stereotypes

Hope said:

I cannot really be bothered to argue with backward thinking, bio-chemical reductionists. But I will say this: We do live in a patriarchal society, but I guess as a patriarchal male you will never get female oppression. It is a bit like a racist white person trying to see things from a black person's perspective - unlikely to happen unless they can unclench their narrow minds. Sexism exists. Women on average still are not paid the same as men, the porn industry expolits women, women are raped and abused. GET REAL.

Once again, you are twisting my words to suit what you want me to be saying.

Whenever women can show they are being paid less than men, or women, for the same job, in court, they win.

And, whenever women can show they are being exploited by men, or women, in court, the men, or women, are prosecuted.

And, whenever women can show they have been raped, or abused, by men, or women, in court, the men, or women, are prosecuted.

Just as whenever men can show they are being paid less than women, or men, for the same job, in court, they win.

Or whenever men can show they are being exploited by women, or men, in court, the women, or men, are prosecuted.

Or whenever men can show they have been raped, or abused, by women, or men, in court, the women, or men, are prosecuted.

Women and men have equal rights in the eyes of our society, and the eyes of our law, and case after case proves that.

Hope said:

So I must be a deformed female from your way of seeing things (sarcasm, by the way!).

No but you are failing to understand the point.

Hope said:

I  prefer intellectual pursuits to socialising, don't wear makeup or skirts, don't care about fashion or clothes, am assertive and speak my mind. Many women are like me, a significant minority in fact, and before you put it down to my aspergers, there are many women with asperger traits who never need a diagnosis, and  many women who are not into socialising.  It is just that society expects women to behave in a certain way and conformity is a very powerful thing.

And the point is that doesn't change the validity of the sterotype, because, and, please try to understand this very simple concept, stereotypes do not speak of the individual or minority, however significant, but of the GROUP and the MAJORITY.

Hope said:

I don't have an identity as a woman as such, more as a human-being. But I do identify with female oppression and identify as a Feminist.    How much to do you know about Feminism?

More than nothing, but not all there is to know. And that is all anyone who knows something about anything can say.

Hope said:

I do not ignore neurology completely: Aspergers is caused by a different wiring in the brain, but  beyond this there is a great deal of difference between people with aspergers. We are all unique, and one person with aspergers will have a slightly different brain difference to the next person with AS, just as one neurotypical's brain will be slightly different to another neurotypical: As Puck puts it, there is a human continuum. But the categories Woman and Man are not medical in a neurological sense, they are purely functional with regards to procreation, and some other marginal average differences like size and strength.  Your argument that men and women think differently due to biochemistry is naive, simplistic and conformist.

It is you that is being naive, simplistic, and frankly wrong. I have shown you evidence that the neuro-biology of men and women differ, and you simply refuse to even aknowledge the presence of that evidence. And, before you ask "What evidence?" go back and read the articles I linked to some posts back.

Hope said:

Do you ever question what you read, do you ever try and see behind facts to hidden meaning, to understand that appearance is not always the same as truth?

Yes.

Hope said:

We are not talking about tigers or cars, we are talking about human-beings.

And? So what? We do not, for this purpose, differ in any significant way to these other entities. We are not, for this purpose, special. We, for this purpose, obey the same universal laws. And, for this purpose, the same scientific principles can be applied to determine the essential similarities and differences within and between different sub-categories of human-beings as can be applied to sub-categories of tiger, or car.

Hope said:

Absolute truth once claimed the earth was flat, and that everything revolved round the earth. You must be aware of this, which sort of refutes your argument that Truth is unchanging!!!

Firstly it was never believed that the earth was flat. That's an urban myth.

Secondly, even if we did once believe that, that's not absolute (objective) truth. That's relative (subjective) truth.

Subjective truth is the subject of philosophy, and changes.

Objective truth is the subject of science, and is static.

Hope said:

And your argument about anaesthetics is a completely different kettle of fish.  Do you take me as stupid? Of course anaesthetics shut down the brain, but we are not talking about the parts of the brain that control our basic functions, like in this case feeling pain, or breathing, eating etc. We are talking about the parts of the brain that control complex human behaviour, thinking, emotions, dexterity...

The parts of the brain that control complex human behaviour, and so on, are no different to, and are affected by anaesthetics in exactly the same way as, the parts of the brain that control our basic functions.

They are made from neurological matter (neurons) and communicated using neural interconnections and chemical neuro-transmitters.

Only the patterns of interconnections between neurons, from neuron groups to muscles, and to neuron groups from sensory inputs, differ.

Hope said:

You say women and men feel pain differently. In what way?

Several ways. See:

http://www.medpagetoday.com/Neurology/GeneralNeurology/2017

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2012/01/120123115517.htm

http://www.medicinenet.com/script/main/art.asp?articlekey=51160

http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=proteins-may-be-key-to-pa

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/4641567.stm

You may also like to read:

http://www.news-medical.net/news/2008/03/01/35810.aspx

http://health.howstuffworks.com/human-body/systems/nervous-system/men-women-different-brains1.htm

and the many other articles you can find on the subject of the differences between male and female brains with a simple google search.

Hope said:

I cannot really be bothered to argue with backward thinking, bio-chemical reductionists. But I will say this: We do live in a patriarchal society, but I guess as a patriarchal male you will never get female oppression. It is a bit like a racist white person trying to see things from a black person's perspective - unlikely to happen unless they can unclench their narrow minds. Sexism exists. Women on average still are not paid the same as men, the porn industry expolits women, women are raped and abused. GET REAL.

Once again, you are twisting my words to suit what you want me to be saying.

Whenever women can show they are being paid less than men, or women, for the same job, in court, they win.

And, whenever women can show they are being exploited by men, or women, in court, the men, or women, are prosecuted.

And, whenever women can show they have been raped, or abused, by men, or women, in court, the men, or women, are prosecuted.

Just as whenever men can show they are being paid less than women, or men, for the same job, in court, they win.

Or whenever men can show they are being exploited by women, or men, in court, the women, or men, are prosecuted.

Or whenever men can show they have been raped, or abused, by women, or men, in court, the women, or men, are prosecuted.

Women and men have equal rights in the eyes of our society, and the eyes of our law, and case after case proves that.

Hope said:

So I must be a deformed female from your way of seeing things (sarcasm, by the way!).

No but you are failing to understand the point.

Hope said:

I  prefer intellectual pursuits to socialising, don't wear makeup or skirts, don't care about fashion or clothes, am assertive and speak my mind. Many women are like me, a significant minority in fact, and before you put it down to my aspergers, there are many women with asperger traits who never need a diagnosis, and  many women who are not into socialising.  It is just that society expects women to behave in a certain way and conformity is a very powerful thing.

And the point is that doesn't change the validity of the sterotype, because, and, please try to understand this very simple concept, stereotypes do not speak of the individual or minority, however significant, but of the GROUP and the MAJORITY.

Hope said:

I don't have an identity as a woman as such, more as a human-being. But I do identify with female oppression and identify as a Feminist.    How much to do you know about Feminism?

More than nothing, but not all there is to know. And that is all anyone who knows something about anything can say.

Hope said:

I do not ignore neurology completely: Aspergers is caused by a different wiring in the brain, but  beyond this there is a great deal of difference between people with aspergers. We are all unique, and one person with aspergers will have a slightly different brain difference to the next person with AS, just as one neurotypical's brain will be slightly different to another neurotypical: As Puck puts it, there is a human continuum. But the categories Woman and Man are not medical in a neurological sense, they are purely functional with regards to procreation, and some other marginal average differences like size and strength.  Your argument that men and women think differently due to biochemistry is naive, simplistic and conformist.

It is you that is being naive, simplistic, and frankly wrong. I have shown you evidence that the neuro-biology of men and women differ, and you simply refuse to even aknowledge the presence of that evidence. And, before you ask "What evidence?" go back and read the articles I linked to some posts back.

Hope said:

Do you ever question what you read, do you ever try and see behind facts to hidden meaning, to understand that appearance is not always the same as truth?

Yes.

Hope said:

We are not talking about tigers or cars, we are talking about human-beings.

And? So what? We do not, for this purpose, differ in any significant way to these other entities. We are not, for this purpose, special. We, for this purpose, obey the same universal laws. And, for this purpose, the same scientific principles can be applied to determine the essential similarities and differences within and between different sub-categories of human-beings as can be applied to sub-categories of tiger, or car.

Hope said:

Absolute truth once claimed the earth was flat, and that everything revolved round the earth. You must be aware of this, which sort of refutes your argument that Truth is unchanging!!!

Firstly it was never believed that the earth was flat. That's an urban myth.

Secondly, even if we did once believe that, that's not absolute (objective) truth. That's relative (subjective) truth.

Subjective truth is the subject of philosophy, and changes.

Objective truth is the subject of science, and is static.

Hope said:

And your argument about anaesthetics is a completely different kettle of fish.  Do you take me as stupid? Of course anaesthetics shut down the brain, but we are not talking about the parts of the brain that control our basic functions, like in this case feeling pain, or breathing, eating etc. We are talking about the parts of the brain that control complex human behaviour, thinking, emotions, dexterity...

The parts of the brain that control complex human behaviour, and so on, are no different to, and are affected by anaesthetics in exactly the same way as, the parts of the brain that control our basic functions.

They are made from neurological matter (neurons) and communicated using neural interconnections and chemical neuro-transmitters.

Only the patterns of interconnections between neurons, from neuron groups to muscles, and to neuron groups from sensory inputs, differ.

Hope said:

You say women and men feel pain differently. In what way?

Several ways. See:

http://www.medpagetoday.com/Neurology/GeneralNeurology/2017

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2012/01/120123115517.htm

http://www.medicinenet.com/script/main/art.asp?articlekey=51160

http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=proteins-may-be-key-to-pa

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/4641567.stm

You may also like to read:

http://www.news-medical.net/news/2008/03/01/35810.aspx

http://health.howstuffworks.com/human-body/systems/nervous-system/men-women-different-brains1.htm

and the many other articles you can find on the subject of the differences between male and female brains with a simple google search.