Published on 12, July, 2020
An informal thread for all misfired and miswired women on the spectrum...,(and guests). A new thread as we can chat away but are not so good tidying up after ourselves....too busy being awesome..,,
This is a new iteration of many long and warm and welcoming contributions. This is a happy and supportive place x
Hi fellow mis-wired women .... I wanted to ask you a question. Do any of you have any female friends? I have always found it far harder to deal with women than men. Men tend to say what they mean far more than women do, so they are easier to figure out. Women seem to have a lot of hidden meanings, little tricks and in-jokes going on, some of it probably designed to exclude, especially when young. So in short, I have never been able to figure out how to do it.
The thing that is bugging me since my diagnosis is that I have been forced to accept that while I at least thought I could do 'making friends' with guys, I haven't actually ever managed it at all, in my entire life (now 46). What I was able to learn how to do is seduce men, which is far easier to understand and learn the rules for than making friends with NTs will ever be, but clearly not the same thing! This is why the few people who I think of as my friends are all ex-lovers from way back. They were people who I spent long enough together with to form a connection, which endures to this day. It is probably also why there is a trail of break-ups behind me, instigated by me. I met guys who I found interesting and nice and fun and wanted to be friends with, but I had no idea how to do that, so I took the easy way out and became more than friends with them. I now feel like a bit of a s*&t because they were all good, nice guys, who often didn't understand why it didn't work out and what they did wrong. And yes, I do feel bad about that. Probably 3/4 of them should have been friends, not lovers, but I didn't / don't know how to achieve that.
I am not sure I understand NT friendship either. I have been involved in 'friendships' with other couples, instigated by my ex-husband. In one case, we travelled an hour each way to visit them, almost weekly. They pretty much never made the effort to come to our place. My hubby didn't seem to be particularly bothered by this. If I had been navigating that one without his guidance, I might have driven to see them a few times, then would have waited for them to call me and/or visit me. If they never did, I would have assumed they weren't that interested in being friends with me. To my black and white Aspie brain, no effort = no interest. Is putting up with this kind of thing normal in NT friendships, I wonder? (rhetorical question - I'm sure you can no more answer that than I can). My sister, who has loads of friends, seems to put up with quite a lot from them at times, including at times the sort of behaviour that would make me have nothing more to do with someone.
Anyway, I am not asking this because I want to be able to make friends. Luckily I am very happy with the ones I have got, because after my post-diagnosis introspection I doubt I could make any new ones if I tried. I am just curious to know if any of you find NT women easier going than I do, and whether anyone identifies with the any of the above.
Hi moggsy, I have never found female friends easy and have hung out with guys most of my life. Even now, I go to a sauna night sometimes at the gym, they have ladies sessions, men’s sessions and mixed sessions. The mixed night is basically men, and me. I tried the women’s night a few times, made some ‘friends’ with some of the other regulars, but it was so painful and torturous, that I don’t even go now. I stick to the mixed aka men’s nights. I hold my hands up where friendships are concerned, I can’t do them and neither do I particularly want to any more. However, I do have a couple of female friends, they’re both undiagnosed autistic, and they both come from my ‘old’ life, from years ago, and it’s ok, I see them sometimes and I’m working on developing more of a friendship with them, whatever that means! It’s getting tricky with male friends now, as they all seem to want some kind of relationship with me, so I’m not gonna deal with that, unless I met someone I wanted to have a relationship with. Instead, I’m going to meet people through activities I like, such as an art group I recently joined and I’ll keep the ‘friendship’ confined to the group. The best thing I have ever done is join a local autistic Support Group. Here, for the first time ever, I feel at home, and already I feel like I’m developing true friendships, which is kind of weird, but I love it there. It doesn’t matter if they’re male or female, young or old or whatever their likes or interests are, I just like being around them and we all get on, in our own way. We can be ourselves and there’s no judgement. It’s so freeing, all those hidden rules are not there, that NT’s seem to know, and I’m really enjoying it. They make me feel normal, whereas, nt women especially, make me feel like a second rate citizen. Not because they treat me that way, but because I don’t understand them, particularly with my black and white thinking.
I made a ‘friend’ with my neighbour. Now I can’t stand going over there, I feel like it’s eating into my ‘me’ time! I guess I’m just not very good at friendships unless I’m getting something specific out of it. That’s not to say I’m not friendly, I am, but friendships seem like too much effort for little or no reward. I am cultivating some level of connection, with my son’s in laws, which is good, but I like my own space or I’d rather be around people who like discussing what I like to talk about or do things I like to do. Even that’s limited, as I like to do most things by myself! Lol!
Interesting, the only 'friends' I have from work are geeky (I do work in tech), possibly undiagnosed autistic types, so I can see where you're coming from with your love of the support group. It is simply nicer to be around people who accept you as you are. The geeky types tend to know that others find them a bit weird, so they are not about to starting saying others are weird!
NT women make me uncomfortable. I have always felt like I am faking it, and that they know somehow. They can always tell I am not the same as them, by some magical 6th sense. So I guess they kind of make me feel second rate too, for not being able to do what they do (or how they do it at least).
For years (before I knew I had Asperger's) I always said that I didn't know how to be a proper girl, and felt like a fish out of water if forced to mix with proper girls. I never understood why I felt that way, because I didn't feel like I was born in the wrong body and I am not gay. I have friends who are (both) and what they described about how they felt growing up was so close to how I felt .... but the reasons clearly weren't the same. It was a big light-bulb moment when I realised that I was simply trying to copy 'NT' and chose 'NT woman' as my model, because I am a woman. The realisation that I am not rubbish at pretending to be a woman, just rubbish at pretending to be an NT woman, was a bit of a relief really!
Hahahaha I like that and I like that some of us are extra special :-)
Lol....to misquote Orwell.... “we are all special, it is just that some of us are more special than others”
lol, you always make me laugh. On a different visit, without me even saying anything, the work coach pointed out the security guard and said how weird and eccentric he is and said you think you've got problems! lol
They obviously got tipped off that you were on your way there! X lol
Yeah, same at my job centre. It’s swarmed with security guards and the same at the council offices! The advisors used to sit behind windows and you would speak into a microphone thing so I guess they wanted to remove those kind of barriers but found that the staff still needed a level of protection when people start kicking off.
My job centre has usually 2 or 3 security guards on the ground floor reception. Another one at the bottom of the stairs. I sign on upstairs. Another 2 there.
At my council offices where they deal with inquiries from the public and I see another work advisor. Plenty of security guards & CCTV. The staff have panic whistles around their necks.
I was chased across the job centre by one of their security guards. I was walking fast but the guy was small and very heavy so although he was running, he couldn’t catch up to me, until I sat down. But yeah, I’m sure they would manhandle me if I started kicking and screaming or they would at least call the police, which is a fairly common occurrence at my job centre. We regularly get locked in, until the police have been and cleared the area!
My job centre has big burly security guards. They will probably manhandle you. If you start kicking and screaming.
I like your spirit BluRay....it is just having the metaphorical “balls” to stop mooring yourself to NT constructs and hope that your own boat doesn’t sink in the process! Inspirational x
Hahahaha definitely and oh boy does it feel good. And so does ditching the bra! :-D but mask hurling is way more satisfying and way more fun. My friend told me to have a melt down in the job centre if they try to bully me, she said get down on the floor and start kicking and screaming! Lol! And see how they like that!
It’s taken me almost 50 years Ellie. When I first isolated myself from the world, at the end of 2012, my sister and whole family really, went weird on me. I couldn’t explain to them what I was doing (trying to figure out what was wrong with me) and they all seemed to think I was just trying to avoid work or something. I have had a few jobs since then and I’ve moved about a bit, from place to place, country to country, and it was only in May 2016 that I realised I was autistic. This realisation changed my life, and I thought that when I got the formal diagnosis, I could show my family, that I wasn’t just, whatever they thought of me. My sister said I ruined her childhood with all my tantrums and meltdowns, weird behaviour, couldn’t eat certain food etc or wear certain clothes. I thought that by them understanding me better, I would stop being the black sheep and I could be part of their family, while still being me. But no, they didn’t want to know. My dad is the only one who has at least asked me what autism is. My sister simply told me not to identify with it, that it’s just a label. I’ve realised they don’t really want to listen to me and I don’t want to listen to them and while I still enjoy being around them, I have to limit the amount of time I spend with them because their conversations just don’t interest me and I no longer wish to fake an interest. I only bump into my sister at my mums, and it actually feels really uncomfortable being in her company. I still like her but I feel like I have to hide my autism when I’m around her which really hurts and I haven’t really got beyond the hurt yet. I feel like I’ve spent so many years trying to fit in, trying to understand myself and this life, that I can no longer tolerate being anything but true to myself. It has landed me in lots of financial difficulty and I barely see anyone these days, but I have gained a whole load of insight and I’m moving forward in my life in a way that honours, supports and nourishes me. I’m finally standing up for myself. I guess that’s hard to do when you don’t know who you are, but now that I do, I accept who I am and I’m creating a lifestyle that suits me, that’s stress free and brings me joy. I’ve gone through a whole range of emotions and what ifs, etc, I’ve grieved for the life I might of had, if I was NT, and now I’m ready to start again, but this time, I have only one agenda, and that is to meet my needs and create a life for me, that suits me and while the world isn’t set up for us, I’m prepared to force the changes that we need in order for us to live the lives we deserve. It really does feel like I’m starting over, from scratch, but this time, my life is being built on a solid foundation. So I’m currently working on the foundation, and so far, it’s a slow process, but I’m getting there. In my mind I’m already there, so really, time’s not an issue to me, and everyday, I’m getting stronger.
When I was working as a social worker, the local authorities would use the ambiguous laws to not give people the services they needed. I used it to ensure my clients got what they needed and I’ll use it again if I have to, to get what I need now.
So mask hurling...is this the ND version of burning your bra in relation to women’s liberation? .
that is not a value judgement, or any judgement btw...just curious....
said me....the high achieving middle manager woman.....who works hard to keep everyone happy and plates spun?
Powerful words indeed....and how long I ask has it taken you to make this transition? If you don’t mind me asking....?
Yes, yes, yes and yes, and when I stopped doing the fitting in to please everyone else dance, the phone calls and invitations stopped. And to be honest, that suits me because if they’re not prepared to listen to me and my interests, then I’m no longer prepared to listen to their pointless drivel! I’m sure it’s not pointless drivel to them, but when they’re not prepared to meet me half way, I’m not wasting any more of my energy listening to them. I don’t know if they enjoy their weird relationships with each other, I guess they do, but it doesn’t appear that way with all the critical comments they make. I’d rather be out of it and the friends I do have, that I rarely see, would be there for me if I needed them and visa versa, and I meet up with them occasionally, every few years or so and that seems to be good enough for all concerned but with family members, some of them anyway, it’s like I’m the devil incarnate! I used to really enjoy my sisters company, but I barely recognise her anymore. I’ve got more honest with who I am and she seems to be more of someone I don’t recognise, in her high powered job, fancy clothes and house etc. I do miss her but it’s beyond me to wear the mask anymore.
Yay this place is great! We're not weird,it's everyone else Seriously, I thought for a long time that I was the only one who thought like this or that this kind of thing happened to .... it's kind of nice to know I am not alone.
Yes you're right, we have limited resources of time and energy, why waste it trying to impress/maintain friendships with people with whom we have nothing in common, when it is better used on the people/pursuits that make us genuinely happy?
Oh my.
Third person joining the conversation, they natter like old friends, me a spare part and me sidling away without being noticed: tick.
Maintaining contact with family members you have nothing in common with is tedious: tick.
Pathological loathing of telephones: tick.
Why would I call someone without having something to say?: tick.
Wow, just wow. This is the first time that I don't feel like I have to explain myself about why I experience any of those things.
"give up on things too easily". Nah. I prefer to see it as making a more valuable use of everyone's time and energy. If someone isn't interested in me and in all honesty I'm not interested in them I'd rather just agree to that and move on with no hard feelings. I'd probably still help them out if they were in trouble and I'd hope they'd do the same for me but I wish there could be an honesty in it all that we didn't have to pretend to be interested in each other in order to be prepared to help each other.