Stubbornness and willfulness

Lots of people don't understand the difference between can't and won't when it comes to ASD kids.

My lovely 16 y/o SD has an amazing singing voice, can act and dance. She does none of these things at this time. Her mother gets upset. We know that if she were in the right environment that gave her routine and structure she might try again. Or she might not as her interests have evolved.

Getting children to learn (any child, not just one with ASD) needs to tune in to their aptitudes and interests and reward progress rather than punishing a lack of progress. 

Your wee man probably can't see the purpose of playing piano. Certainly can't see the purpose of practice (I might add as a ND adult it took me into my 30s until I understood why practice mattered but b still struggled because of tiredness and distractibility). All he is getting is negative feedback. He will be increasingly stressed each time he is expected to play.

Your wife needs to learn more about autism. She's no different from any other parent struggling with a diagnosis, because she's got to alter her expectations and drop her dreams. It's really about grief, she's in the stages of denial and bargaining "of course it isn't the autism, if I push him hard enough he won't be different". She may also need counseling.

I'm a step-mother and my current wrestling match with myself is around accepting that the bad choices my SD makes are not irreparable...and I'm in anger because if we were able to exert guardianship in a healthy way with the two co-parenting partners acting in SD16 interests she would be getting the right help. I'm expecting at age 25 or 35 we are going to be seeking assistance for a disabled adult who has never taken adult responsibility. So my anger is directed at her mother's behaviour. I'm also deeply saddened every time I see her because she's regressed as her mother has started using ASD as an excuse for not being able to do things, rather than her being a parent and directing the child towards different ways of trying.

Your son doesn't need a specialist teacher, but if he wants to learn music he needs to have someone who will take the time to work with him around ways of learning.

You mentioned the liking to start at the beginning. Giving him the explanation that he will benefit starting at the beginning of the phrase before the mistake, so he's able to shift the early piece focus to a bit he's finding hard might be enough. It certainly helped me. Getting him to sing the notes, clap the rythym, play on a table with the right fingers...

Having breaks for movement, having specific piano stretches and exercises. If he likes mathematics finding YouTube clips about the mathematics of music...

He might not want to play the piano. My brother and his wife are very brave with their quirky ND kids. They have surrounded them with music, demonstrated its fun and let them choose what to play. Their 10 year old plays trombone, 14 year old viola, 16 y/o is a percussionist (kettle drums home for the summer holidays (!)), 20 y/o oboe and 24 y/o the gazzo with saxaphone on the side.

Thank you for sharing your experiences, it is good to know that one is not alone. 

I think my best recourse is to find a special needs music teacher for Joseph to see if it makes a difference. 

Hi. My daughter is Aspergers/high functioning autistic. She is 17 and was diagnosed 3 years ago. I am a piano teacher and my daughter played saxophone and achieved grade 4. She gave up because she didn't get a distinction for grade 4, (she did for the other grades). She considered the merit she got for grade 4 as failure, (no grey areas, you've probably heard of that). 

Over the three years since diagnosis, and with psychologists help, I have learnt that you have to (let them be).  As a teacher, (and now informed mother), I would ask your son if he wants to  continue with the piano. If so discuss with him some music he may like to learn. Maybe change the tutor book or teacher. Would your son like to learn a different instrument? If instruments aren't for him it is not parental failure or weakness. Be guided by your son and let him follow his interests. 

During my career I have spoken to a couple of parents and suggested that music is not for their child, absolutely nothing to do with autism.

Believe you me, I know how difficult this is. I'm not sure if your son is your only child, I only have my daughter. I constantly feel 'pig in the middle' over a variety of matters and frictions can run high. From my limited experience, autistics seem to have one passion for something. In my daughters case it is reptiles, and she now has quite a collection which she has a deep fascination for. I have very little interest in them at all, although I do love dogs and cats, etc.

Finally, as a music teacher, I would give your son six weeks as a make or break. The situation you describe is not good for learning and will just cause further stress. Letting him 'give up' is not failure, he's given it a go with parental support. Let him move on. 

Finally, as a parent of an autistic, prior to diagnosis my daughter would never listen to a word I said or do anything I asked of her, leading to many rows. In secondary school she began self harming because she couldn't cope with being there. Since diagnosis our family unit, myself, husband and daughter, get on much better. With the help of psychologists we accept our daughter, I understand a lot more about autism and I understand her very many quirks. By the way, she still never does anything I ask her, but we don't row very much now, I know she's different.

Best of luck

Hi My son is 16 and although very musical, he never settled on a formal instrument and refused to sing in the school choir once it wasn't compulsory. However, he loves music. He recently started Music Therapy with Nordoff-Robbins. I pay for this privately. The sessions are not about 'learning' to play. The therapist incorporates my son's interests into the sessions. For example, he loves DS games so the therapist plays the theme tunes he likes and he joins in with percussion. This gives him an emotional outlet and helps him to understand his emotions and reflect on events. He really looks forward to the sessions. He feels confident and supported. Maybe Music Therapy could be a compromise instead of piano?

Good idea, actually.  He's like me, too.  If I make a mistake, it's back to the beginning - but I can still hear that first teacher shouting 'Carry on, for goodness sakes!'

I took it up out of choice.  I'd say if Joseph enjoys it, in spite of the challenges, then good.  But sometimes parents can make choices for their children that aren't always the best.  My step-sister, for instance, insisted her daughter take up dancing - because she wanted her to be a dancer and develop poise and grace, etc.  Sadly, the girl was too much of a sugar-plum fairy. Poise and grace were never going to be drummed into her.  Eventually, her mother saw the light - and actually, I think the girl was glad when she no longer had to go!

It saddens me no end when I hear parents say 'We're making him do so-and-so because we think it'll teach him discipline.'  It's got to be done willingly - not coercively.

That's just my thought on it, though.  I know nobody could ever force me to do anything I didn't want to as a child (unless it was have a wash and go to bed!)  My parents tried at one time to get me to go to a youth club because they were worried that I wasn't making friends.  Fortunately, they didn't pursue it when I told them how much I hated it.  It was only when I was old enough to make my own choices about things, too, that I began to find what I really enjoyed doing.

Tom

There is a Senco involved but it is early says and is still trying to figure out how best to move forward. 

Joseph is taking piano lessons because his mum did and she believes it is good for all children to learn a musical instrument. I cannot argue as I never learnt - I don't have the concentration span or diligence to learn music. 

Joseph does love music and can hold a rhythm but he is easily distracted and looses his place in the music, and once lost he prefers to start again from the begining - a bit like I am with counting! 

Since Joseph was diagnose I have been assessed, and I am borderline.

This is a bit presuptious but maybe the best is if I take up piano as well and then communicate the experience back to the other adults. 

J

Sounds a lot like I was at school.  In my first year at primary, I was way ahead of everyone else with reading, writing and spelling.  Yet before another couple of years had passed, I was failing - and I failed the 11+, even though the early signs had been that I'd sail it.  I used to escape into my imagination a lot, because it was a safe place.  Other people were invariably hostile in some way.  Reading, too, was an escape.  Even now, when I've learned to live with anxiety almost as my default condition, I find great release from reading or films - or through my own writing, where I can again exercise my imagination and try to make sense of things that otherwise baffle me.

Yes... it won't help being in a class of 30, as I was, and being expected to toe the line.  It's like being a cat in a room full of dogs (my favourite analogy!)  Has the SenCo been any help for you?

One other thing I meant to ask... does he have the piano lessons because he wants to play piano?  Does he seem to enjoy piano and making music otherwise?

Tom

Hi Tom,

Thank you. I appreciate you relating your own experiences, it is exactly what I need to hear. 

And what you have said makes sense and aligns with my view on the matter. 

Sadly my son is not getting much support at school. Being part of class of 30 does not help. He spends most of his time reading rather l than participating in lessons. He just failed year 3 because his output was too low for them to maje a propery assessment. I think the reading is a safety mechanism because he is struggling with the class environment. 

Best of luck to you. 

Hi there,

I have Asperger's - though I only found out in middle-age!  I started piano lessons when I was 19.  The first teacher was an irritable older man who was forever snapping at me for making mistakes.  This took me straight back to the classroom - a horrifying place - and so my mistakes got worse and worse.  In the end, I stopped going because he made me feel useless.  A couple of years later, I found another teacher.  With trepidation, I had a 'taster' lesson with him - and I'd found the right person!  He was patient with me.  He allowed me to experiment with some different pieces.  He didn't force me - as the other one had done - to study for Grade exams.  Under his tutelage, I learned an awful lot and finally began to play with some proficiency.

My experiences - in all areas of my life - suggest that it's less about the person learning as about the person teaching.  It sounds to me as if your son simply has the wrong teacher.  His teacher - and, from the sounds of it (unfortunately), your wife - are seeing your son as the problem.  He's not!  He has certain needs that require a certain approach.  Pushing harder with him in this situation is not going to help him.  Rather, he needs someone teaching him who can take him on his own terms - and preferably someone who understands autism and the needs of people who have it. 

How does your son manage at school?  Does he get special teaching there?  Unfortunately, 'stubbornness and wilfulness' are often labels that are pinned on people who (because they don't have teachers who are qualified or experienced enough in dealing with such behaviours) do not seem to respond in the way most other people might.  I had all of those labels, too - plus 'disruptive', 'dreamy', 'unsocial', 'inattentive', 'hopeless'.  I went on to get a degree, though, and to take my piano Grade exams (even though I'm still not much good at the piano!) - mainly because I found the right teachers to work with.

Sorry to be blunt with this.  But I hope it can help in some way to hear someone else's experiences in this regard.

Best of luck,

Tom