Can Vaccinations Cause Autism in Dogs?

To AngelDust, and to anyone thinking along similar lines... about "animals"...
Yes, and YES! I certainly DO believe that "animals can be Autistic/ND". If you are reading this, then I have succeeded in opening a NEW THREAD --- BRAINWAVES. Please please direct an attention to that, and it also invites opinion concerning "animals", "brainwaves" and "AUTISM". (Find the "search box" on your device and type in "brainwaves" &/+"Autism" and you should find it (unless NAS deletes it (...))
...With regards to this particular thread:
..."vaccinations" causing a difference to ANYTHING AT ALL - human or not -- that was my confusion, and addresses a different subject altogether, for me to attempt to specify "opinion" about...
...Also, about the fact that dogs could be autistic...
...Or that dogs or 'animals' are even "sentient" at all...
...THIS is what I did NOT want to discuss, because there are too many opinions concerning "consciousness" and "sentience"...

A NEW THREAD to start, is certainly something like:

"CAN animals be ND/Autistic(/Sentient)?"

... but, forgive me, I, myself, totally do not want to start such a discussion because it is too esoteric, and it may also touch too often upon RELIGION... thus I am afraid of - again - offending anybody, and so I did not want to enter into such a discussion. My already started *new* thread, at least, is NOT discussing semantics such as that, but it IS discussing "autism" and "animals" and "children" and a lot of connection between seemingly disparate subjects as those listed there.

Please re-read this entire post in order to consider it. And you may ask questions about it upon the NEW thread. (Sort of.)

Thank you again, and to you or anyone, for (attempting to?) understanding all that I mean.
I suppose that I always have to add that I myself AM AUTISTIC, hence any "weird" mannerisms or punctuation. やれやれ...

Hi Disallowed Cynosure,

I found your ‘animal’ article very interesting to read- thank you for posting the link to it.

I also found it very sad too that some humans can be so cruel and dismissive of animals (and birds) needs and feelings.

Do you believe that animals can be autistic/ND? (ND means Neurodiverse i.e. on the spectrum)

Hi Disallowed Cynosure,

I personally think its totally okay to ask questions on here like you did (when you asked what the thread was about) and that asking questions, asking for help or advice, being yourself, being kind to one another, and helping one another if we can is very much exactly what this community forum is for.

That "M--" vaccine was mentioned in someone else's QUOTATION, posted near the start of this page/thread, so look for it there. Then it was responded with a not understanding why the quotation was posted, and then the reason was explained.

If this goes well, there should be a new post-with-a-link from myself underneath this "reply"; I did not know what subject to write about: "animals" or "vaccines", you see...

To everyone: I am not surprised if you don't understand me or regard me as being rude or hostile... I am Autistic myself (!). I never mean to offend, I only want to (try to) help, but I can't do that over ambiguity. Sorry again if even this last is misunderstood.

https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/bear-in-mind/201110/why-the-caged-bird-does-not-sing

Even though it is not about Autism, or dogs,  If this link works, it leads to a similar "animal" article, maybe? Please do not tell me off too harshly for my confusion.

Good morning Disallowed Cynosure,

I think the 'clue' about what is being discussed here is in the title of the post...can VACCINATIONS cause AUTISM in DOGS.

This original question (the post title) naturally demanded that we think about a) whether vaccinations can cause autism, and also b) whether animals can even be 'autistic' or Neurodiverse.

I don't think anyone mentioned the specific MMR vaccine except you.

As far as I personally understand it,  it appears that the majority of people who have so far responded and taken part in this discussion  a) don't believe vaccinations cause autism in humans or animals and b) suspect that animals can be ND. 

I think that, if you are going to even try to consider whether animals can be ND it requires a large amount of 'empathic, existential, philosophical [ ] discussion...'

And I am not sure how I would begin to think about answering the title question without thinking about a) autism in animals AND b) vaccines. So I don't understand why you questioned as follows; 

Disallowed Cynosure said:

is this supposed to be discussing AUTISM IN ANIMALS or THE MMR/any VACCINE? Which one?

In theory, if you are attempting to answer the original posts title question, then it is both.

The original post was about autism, dogs, and vaccines.

Excuse me for interrupting all of this "empathic, existential, homocentric, philosophical, psychochemical, zoopathic, Zoological" discussion... but is this supposed to be discussing AUTISM IN ANIMALS or THE MMR/any VACCINE? Which one? Which one, I ask!

As much as I support MattBucks position on 'vaccines' and I too am personally deeply uncomfortable with people spreading the belief that autism is caused by vaccination- I support Caretwo's right to 'freedom of speech.'

Our human right to be different, to have different opinions, to live differently, to disagree with one another, is being steadily eroded and removed everyday by our Gov. A progressive and healthy society is resilient enough to cope with (and appreciate) different opinions and does not willingly or lightly exercise censorship amongst it adult population.

http://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/gadgets-and-tech/news/theresa-may-internet-regulating-regulation-china-general-election-london-attack-bridge-a7774221.html

Even if Caretwo had blatantly said they believed autism is caused by vaccines (which they did not) - a difference of opinion is not trolling.

I appreciate that, particularly when it comes to health, it is critically important to clarify information and to not lie about the validity of sources and research findings etc. however I did not personally feel that Caretwo breached either of these areas by his/her post.

We will have to agree to disagree about Psychology Today, however, it does not attempt to be a peer-reviewed journal: it is intended for a public audience.

Apologies for not being clear about my statement 'it looks at the issue from a scientific point of view.' The point I was trying to get across was that the article referred to various research (which the reader could, if wanted, look into) rather than quoting personal opinions. I acknowledge that the article would have been better had it referenced the research.

There have been several "vaccination" threads over the years, usually resulting around people posting utter rubbish and then people being banned for refuting them (evidence wasn't welcome), so I tend to think that claims of vaccination "causing" autism on here are often an attempt at trolling (although I'm happy to accept that yours isn't).

I wouldn't go as far as to say Psychology Today is respected, it's full of a lot of rubbish as well as some good articles, very few of them would stand up to peer review and are little more than opinion pieces. 

I also don't think that the article looks at it from a scientific point of view, it's far too short for that, presents no evidence and doesn't attempt to apply scientific principal.

NAS15840 said:

Please can we place a forum wide ban on anyone posting about vaccinations causing autism

I object most strongly to you trying to deny free speech.

The piece I posted about is from a respected website. The title of my post was taken directly from the Psychology Today blog post to avoid any accusations of sensationalism, scaremongering, etc.

People who read the piece will know it cannot be accused of supporting the view that vaccinations cause autism and that it looks at the issue from a scientific point of view.

Please can we place a forum wide ban on anyone posting about vaccinations causing autism, either in humans, animals, vegetables or objects, inanimate or otherwise.

Wow Oktanol,

That research is really great! Thank you for posting it.

It makes total sense to me that a great way of researching diversity would be to use an inherently and deeply social creature, such as Bees, who seemingly rely heavily on cooperation and a 'shared way of life' in order to survive.  

So, if I have understood the research correctly, a genetic signature has been identified which relates to sociability, the ability to form sociological bonds, and that this gene has been found to be diverse/different in some of the Bees in the study?

That makes sense to me as I have always understood that humans are born with the inherent 'intentionality to relate' to one another; which is supportive too of our sociability being biologically driven. And therefore, if it is biological, there must (surely) always be room for diversity to occur in nature as ‘nature’ constantly diversifies in order to survive (Darwin.)

Which may all suggest that Neurodiversity can and does exist (relatively) within the animal/insect kingdom.

Wow, that's fantastic food for thought!                         

Thank you for explaining.

I am glad the post grabbed your attention. There have been quite a few views but not many replies.

It seems logical that animals can be neurologically diverse but I have no evidence to support that statement.

I'd think that's quite possible, they can have all sorts of other disabilities, so why not something of that sort too. Any ability an animal (or human) would normally have can be missing to some extent and if that's significant enough it's classed as a disability. I don't think we can describe them as if they were people though. In nature they would most likely not survive very long, but as pets there's perhaps not that much of a point in diagnosing them and put a label on every difference but just take them the way they are (maybe in many ways that's also true with people).

Hi Caretwo,

I am sorry! You are quite right, I should have added a note to explain myself better.

Your post grabbed my attention and I found the article very interesting. I pinged the quote from the article as a reply as, in my mind, I thought it had answered the title question of your post, i.e. Do vaccinations cause Autism in dogs. But I realise now that I did not communicate or explain this very well at all. Sorry.

So, I hope to now better explain my self; I don't personally believe that vaccines cause Autism, in dogs or humans. Which is why I replied by posting the quote from the article that supports this.

However, I do have an entirely open mind as to whether dogs (or any other animal) can be ND.

Really interesting discussion/post, thank you.

I am really hoping and looking forward to other peoples views on whether animals can be ND and how/why. 

Do you believe animals can be ND?

Kathy Hoopman who wrote All Cats have Aspergers also wrote a follow up All Dogs have ADHD

Reminds me of Best in Show. Sorry, can't help finding it a bit funny.