Alternatives to A Levels then University

Thats great advice, i will look into it when they are back from there october holidays. Im planning on spending the next week or so getting everything in a writen format to present the college as my first step in lodging a complaint. My main concern at the moment is that im starting to look towards next years applications and I dont want them saying he doesnt need suport. I will include the use or lack of use of the dictaphone in the paperwork and ask for there formal responce.

Will let you know what happens.

Thanks

Sam

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I wonder if asking them to demonstrate how their proposals are having a beneficial effect would help. Surely you can ask them specifically what observations have been made of successful implementation of each proposal.

So for example, how often has he been allowed to use the dictaphone? How often has its use been prevented? You probably know that from what your son tells you, but put the college on the spot.

It occurred to me also that if they put up barriers to using a dictaphone that gives you leverage to ask for a copy of the teaching notes for each class. If they argue that the teaching notes are confidential, or too hard for a lay person to follow, then you've got some leverage. Because they should be considering the option of providing class notes to disabled students. That means having class notes in a form a disabled student could use to facilitate learning. If they haven't done that they are asking for retribution.

Getting them to demonstrate that the have been providing effective support then gives you leverage with external bodies because it is their admissions and excuses as evidence, rather than your perception or your son's perception.

Hi longman,

Thanks for your responce. In a strange way its good to know its not just Michael having these problems with support, it has always seemed that they tick the boxes where the law is concerened by having all the meetings and paperwork saying what support is to happen but not actualy providing it. Almost covering there backs with paperwork. I have contacted the NAS student services for some advice and will let you know what they say. Perhaps we can push this forward into a wider disscusion on scotland support as a whole there must be some parts of scotland doing it well! it would be nice to here from people who have also had good experiences of support and how they got it. Thanks again

Sam

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Hi again Sam,

I did this in two parts because for some reason I get cut off when writing and pausing too much.

I'm personally shocked by the dictaphone situation, but not surprised. I know the debate in depth. The answer is, if you need a dictaphone you should be able to use it provided you undertake only to use it for your own benefit. That should overcome the objections of others present. The content of the recorded discussions has to be for your own private use only. Alternatively, if you have an allowance for disability support during your education you could get a note taker to attend classes.

But you've partly explained the problem. You are in Scotland. I was born and grew up and was educated in Scotland, with half my ancestry Scottish. Best education in the world as long as you're normal, play rugby and go to Sunday School/Scottish Schoolboys Club or whatever. There does seem to be some difficulty in Scotland doing the disability equality thing properly.

I have looked up my old school's prospectus to see what they have on disability. Three years ago it said they could provide extra tuition for dyslexia and special needs. Now there's not even that on the website.

Perhaps NAS could do a special issue on Scotland, or at least an article in Communication. I'd like to feel proud of being a Scot. I seem to be spending too much time apologising for it.

Hi Sam,

There certainly is a change in approach to disability of late, due to financial cutbacks. The original drive of disability equality has fizzled out, hardly anyone has been prosecuted, and there is now a tendancy to withdraw the generous hand on the basis we'll take the one in a thousand risk of there being any trouble. After all, the disabled are very forgiving and content to put up with their lot.....

I have reiterated on these pages (and wish NAS would take note) that the response to learning needs is the supposed "level playing field" principle and handy misinterpretations of the social model. The idea is you put certain support provisions in place, which supposedly put the disabled individual back on ann "equal" footing and then it is just up to them to try to study. Individual differences in learning technique are just part of life's little tapestry. We've done the basics. You can have a dictaphone but only if everyone else is happy for yoiu to use it. We'll give you handouts on sepia coloured paper, and we've put some very basic modifying functions on the course and module websites. End of disability provision.

The biggest evil now is this idea of an "over-arching" equality policy. Disability is catered for by the same provisions that are made for race equality and pregnant mothers. There isn't the money for individual needs to be addressed.

That, at any rate, is the gist of my usual rant

Hi longman,

Hope you can help me, my bubble has burst college not so great now!! whats that saying "pride before a fall!!"

To bring you uptodate, Michael is still loving the course and doing very well in class, he is still getting on ok with his new friends and wants to stay on at college and do a HNC next and it is deffinatly still better for him to be at college rather than school.

However all the promised support for organising things has vanished, he has been given a dictophone but not the permission to use it as there is some under 19 year olds in the course and they cant give there own permission to be recorded. I have been given no info from the college on his work timetables etc and there have been a cupple of problems with the taxis for college trips to see film sets etc.I have had a cupple of meetings with the learning support and the outcome was basicaly that im now responsible for contacting lectures to get timetables and homework info etc, they say this is to cut out the middleman, that they would ask the lecturers if this would be ok and get back to me, this was two weeks ago and Ive heard nothing. Also they said that I should take responsiblility for organising his taxis, im suprised that I have the authority to do so as I neither pay or book them. They said that wasnt a problem and I was just to phone the taxis myself when Michael needed it altered. For exmple after xmas his days and times will change. I am happy to phone and arrange things, however, if im not getting the info from the college that a change is happening how can I alter the taxis!!! Ahhhh!! anyway i just wanted to put you in the picture and explain that im not getting much help from the college so i feel that I cant approach them for help organising next years HNC, I am starting to gather information to begin the funding applications and it all seems a bit much at the moment and is not making much sence. Do you have any knowledge of the Scotish Students Award Agency as it seems I have to apply for disabled student funding to pay for taxis, scribes, technologys etc and need to do this by March. And who do I apply to for tuition fees etc is it them again or the college as he should be entitled to his fees waived as we live in scotland. If you could point me in the right direction it would be much appreciated.

Many appologies for this long ranting post.

Sam

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Hi longman,

Thats all great, loads of info to help us parents and student who dont know where to turn.

Thanks

sam

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Yeah, I saw the suggestion but I wouldn't worry, it's clear that it's a helpful guide to alternatives to A-levels and University regardless of whether you'd read the other discussion.

Sure it'll be helpful for those thinking about possible further education options

Colin Cat Moderator suggested I create this thread, just in case you were wondering why I'd done this. It arose in another discussion thread.  It looks a bit like a random spiel otherwise, which is my general fear anyway, that people wont see the point.

Really interesting to read Longman must admit I always find it really confusing to understand all the possible options available.

Sadly the government insisted on calling these "foundation degrees" because they have been confused with foundation courses done prior to going on to a degree.This confusion has meant that they haven't been taken up as well as they should, and many Foundation Degrees have closed as a result. Also some colleges and universities just adapted HNCs and HNDs which led to a loss in confidence. Having said this a Foundation Degree is still a realistic option.

A Foundation Degree is at level 4 and 5, and completing one is equivalent to completing second year at university. They stand as degrees in their own right - you can graduate with a foundation degree or top up by further study to a full degree.

They were designed as practical alternatives to doing a full degree. They are mostly "vocational" based on a career, and development was led by the Sector Skills Councils. Again they contain around a dozen modules and earlier qualifications may be accepted as part of them by "accreditation of prior learning". So you can use NVQs HNCs etc as part of completing them.

Like HNC/HND they are usually part-time by day release from work, at a local college or even at a university, and can also be by distance learning (self directed study). They are like HNC/HNDs in many ways, just that completion gives you a degree, and they can be automatically "topped up" to a full degree, which could be in a different but related subject.

Main problem is they need more promotion, and are not well enough known, though employers often like them as they produce practical graduates rather than brain boxes.

HNCs and HNDs have been around for a long time, and are still successful. An HNC is at Level 4 (equivalent to first year of a degree course). HND is at Level 5 (equivalent to second year on a degree course). They can be used to substitute for first or second year of a degree but it is not automatic, and there might be some additional assessment required to go into third year at university with an HND.

They can be studied by day release at a college, or by distance learning (self directed study at home) depending on how the course is set up. They are usually in two parts, but take longer than one part each year, maybe around four years to do, as they are part-time. The course fee may be paid for by an employers, if self paid they can usually be paid in instalments.

The quality varies, which is one reason why they dont automatically key in to university degree levels, but the new Qualification and Credit Framework is supposed to smooth this. A course usually consists of a dozen modules, and there are skills to be demonstrated as well as assessments (coursework often, sometimes exams). They are very practical in content, and may require you to use the workplace as part of the learning and assessment.

They cover a wide range of subjects but mostly relate to Sector Skills Councils which are strongly guided by employers and what employers want. You can find the sector skills councils on the internet, things like Asset Skills (housing management, estate management) or Construction Skills (building trades).

They are good if you want to progress in a particular job, but they can be used to get part way into a degree course.

These are on-the-job qualifications at five levels from 1 to 5 (second year at University).  They are based around work skills and work knowledge, and often assessed by doing tasks while being assessed (so it depends how comfortable you feel about being watched doing something). You can build up credits and use these to subsitute for parts of a higher qualification by "accreditation of prior learning". This isn't automatic but depends on the entrance requirements for the higher course.

Its a slow way to acquire qualifications, unless you move quickly to the higher levels. But it may be a real boon to those who need to learn in stages, and whose confidence is boosted by each success. And they are often free or paid for by employers. There is a page on this in the DirectGov website

This was introduced after 1994 and launched about four years ago, as a more practical alternative to GCSEs and A Levels.  Unfortunately many schools have ignored it and the availability of courses varies regionally. Each course is based on practical applications and employers' needs, and there are foundation (Level 1), Higher (level 2) and Advanced (level 3 equivalent to A Level). You can do some diplomas and some A Levels or any other mix.

There are courses in Engineering, Construction and Built Environment, Environment and Land Use Management (work on the land or with animals), Health, etc. and there's a page on this on the DirectGov site.

They involve local employers, universities and colleges and can be taken in school or in colleges, depending on availability. They haven't been set up as well as they could have been, there's still a lot of uncertainty about them, but they may be very good alternatives to just cramming for a Levels. It just depends how far the present government goes in promoting them.