Support / ideas for general withdrawal from life

That's lovely to hear she has lovely supportive grandparents too! I have a trans sibling, so I am always conscious if they are okay with any given situation, so I wanted to check it wasnt that! I can see why you would be worried, if she didn't want to go then - but if she is now maybe opening up, you could see if she would like to go for a just her visit and drop her off, in case having some quality time just with them is restorative! It might also give her a chance to feel a bit young again which could help too.

That's a fair comment but C really gets on with her grandparents. They are really accepting and have supported her a lot. She regularly goes to football with Granddad (a little more in boy mode) and when I suggested we skip their house at Christmas she was the one who wanted to go as it was "traditional". So I think that's why it was such a surprise she didn't want to make an effort. Especially as good was involved :-)

Stuart333 said:

I also only saw my grandparents once or twice a year when small so by 17 I didn't know them I didn't know what to say

Just wanted to add this is very true, not going to see grandparents might be self preservation rather than rejecting going out. I find it very difficult talking to extended family. My dad's side in particular are so close, but as I child when we used to visit them I used to hide on the stairs, and as an adult now I don't know what I'm meant to say to them.

If she was close to them before, she might like seeing them just herself so smaller numbers, but if she's very sensitive, maybe she's worried about comments that will make her feel bad, and then it's just about protecting herself rather than disengaging.

You'll only know if she wants to talk about some point -and don't be afraid of meeting her on her ground -sending a message about it, she might open up more in text format.

The first step is the hardest, so that's amazing! Wishing you well for starting the journey!

If you are dysregulated and close to fight/flight mode, you become very sensitive to criticism because you are monitoring for threats. Anything which upsets the status quo, is a threat as it is a risk of unknown change.

The fact she is absorbing random information is what I do a lot. I know something about almost everything. I think it is part of masking, so you are not caught out and have something to say. 

Also for a systematizing brain, data is good as it lets you understand things, but also make new connections, which I very rewarding.

The fact she wants to talk about them shows she's does not want to withdraw, she just needs the opportunity to engage without judgement or criticism.

I am pleased she is willing to engage. It shows something has fallen into place. These things happen in their own time and mostly after sone solitude.

That sounds lovely, yeah sometimes having a safe person to start going to a club with really helps, it's less pressure and then gives her the chance to eventually branch off when ready as you said. Your boardgame group sounds excellent for this, there's lots of easy conversation around discussing game rules, art to admire and comment on, this can really help if you don't know what to say. I hope you can both enjoy that together!

A real positive today I just wanted to share. I contacted the GP today and they offered us an appointment (initially a call at 7.15am tomorrow - clearly not understanding the issues!). In the past C hasn't wanted to engage but she came to the appointment at 3pm today and talked to the doctor. 

We've been sent links to some local MH support and CAMHS - at 17 I suspect she'll later be referred to adult mental health but getting her talking to professionals is a good step (outside our family therapy). 

1. Thanks for the links and welcome. Everyone has been every helpful and welcoming.

We do have a few shared interests and so watching films together (she's doing film A-level and so has to watch one a week) as well ask watching music. I also thought about inviting her to my boardgame group although while I think she'd enjoy it I worry if everything is with me. Perhaps though she'd branch off and find new friends and so perhaps I'll do that.....

Thanks for the reply. I think she uses her phone for games, YouTube (she was very engaged in commenting on trans issues but that seems to have calmed down). She watches a wide array of videos, on all sorts of subjects I'd never have guessed and often talks about them back to us. Sometimes interesting (history /politics), sometimes not (computer games). All will be explained at great lengths if we manage to go a walk. 

I think you're right about comments being criticism. She is very quick to attach blame for everything and will often think we are blaming her when we say anything that could vaguely touch on thibgs that might be negative. 

Hello, do you know what she is using the phone for? chatGPT to talk to, music, social media, to look up stuff?

I have recently realised people cause me stress. The more unpredictable the worse It is. It is hard to get fully regulated with other people around, I ignored it for years.

Music cam be calming. You heart beat syncs to the music. It gives your brain something to focus on.

Online written communication is easy as it is not quite real time, it is more of a level playing field,  and there is less emotion (emoticons have rules so you know what to do). It is a way to participate without as much pressure.

The internet is a great way to get good, and bad, information. Stuff you need to mask and fit in.

I have realised I have started using chatGPT to regulate me. When stressed I start talking to it. Now I've noticed I am reducing usage. But self awareness is not easy.

A phone is addictive. It goes from routine to addiction quite easily. It may be hard to see it though and if used for regulation will be hard to reduce without a replacement. It is easy to get distracted when looking at things, it causes me issues.

Talk of the future at that age used to worry me. I didn't know what you make of it. I didn't want to go to uni but got talked into it.

I sympathise with your position. I don't really know what to suggest. Comments to her are likely to be seen as criticism.

I suppose the only way is for her to notice herself how much time is being used. Maybe a video to see herself from outside? 

Missing food or drink is not an issue for me if I am interested in something enough.

Since being alone in my own world in my head is often sought it is hard to think of what the downside is. At 17 I just read books and listened to music. Socialising was something I did a bit but not much. All homework was done at the last minute, often working overnight.

I think your issues are mostly punctuality, but you can't force that. Only bad grades will do that. And socialising, which is something you have to want, enjoy and have the opportunity to do. I don't think you can force that.

I thought going round with my parents was uncool so resisted. I also only saw my grandparents once or twice a year when small so by 17 I didn't know them I didn't know what to say. I used to just sit there quietly and wait to go home. People just thought I was well behaved.

I don't know if this waffle has anything useful in it.

I'm sorry your having such a tough time and it sounds like you've already done everything you possibly could, you just need her to engage which with therapy which can be the difficult part. 

This might have already been on your list, but possibly just trying to spark conversation about one of her interests? It might only be for a few minutes, but any non screen time is a bonus but if she starts talking about something she cares about she might enjoy it?

Dear FriedDad,

Thank you for reaching out to the online community- I can see you have already had a very supportive reply. I am sorry to hear about your daughter's struggles and how this is impacting your family. 

The National Autistic Society does not currently operate a crisis or emergency service. We advise you to contact 999 or any of the mental health crisis lines listed on our Urgent Help Page if anyone is at risk of immediate harm: https://www.autism.org.uk/what-we-do/help-and-support/urgent-help  

If there is not an immediate risk of harm, we would encourage you to speak to your GP or another health professional about this if you haven’t done so already. If it’s outside your GP hours call 111 to reach the NHS 111 service. In in England, Wales and Scotland there is now an option to speak with mental health professionals by selecting ‘option 2’ when calling NHS 111: https://www.nhs.uk/nhs-services/urgent-and-emergency-care-services/when-to-use-111/  

You have done all the right things by reaching out for support from other services. I have also linked some advice and guidance from the NAS website that may be worth taking a look at:

Mental health and wellbeing

Anger management

Distressed behaviour

Please reach out if there is any further support or advice that the online community can give.

Best wishes,

Olivia Mod

Thank you for the thoughtful reply Kate Kestrel  .

On the trans side then she's not taken it any further than changing her identity/preferred gender. We've tried to balance supporting her and not doing things for her. And so she's not engaged anyone or taken any next steps. It's very difficult to know just how much to do for her and I feel it needs to be her decision/ push. A little different to, say, a college application where we'd activity push her hard to do it so it gets done. 

I think you're right about phones being a source of comfort for her, she engages in debate and has friends online and so I think it helps her. I just wish it didn't impact her life. 

We recently had a cruise, which she enjoyed but it was a challenge. Getting up and ready early for excursions is tough and the lack of a strict schedule on sea days meant she stayed in bed a lot. It was a good holiday for us though as we could get up and out without worrying about the kids. Often holidays are hard because if she won't get ready then it's very frustrating. We often lose most of the day and it's caused arguments. So sometimes I'm more tempted to stay at home. As you say it's a vicious circle. The less we do because she can't cope or engage the more she withdraws. 

I’m so sorry that you are all as a family struggling in this way. It’s incredibly hard when the person involved doesn’t feel able or willing engage with some of the ways you’re trying to help. It’s very positive though that she’s been willing to go to family therapy - that’s a big achievement for all of you. Has she been engaging with services relating to her being trans? How has that process been for her? Has she been given any medication? 
Phones are undoubtedly addictive. My son spends countless hours on his iPad - and I also find it hard to get him to be less withdrawn from many aspects of life. It’s so hard for him and like you (by the sound of it) I try to remove as much pressure as I can from him as I know he is struggling so much and really suffering (my son has ocd as well as being autistic - and ocd is such a hard thing to live with and try to overcome)  and it’s so hard for him. Sometimes I think the phone/ipad is their only source of comfort and distraction and therefore of course they turn to it to try to feel better. But it is a vicious circle in many ways. I don’t have any answers I’m afraid. I think it’s vital to try to keep communication as good as you possibly can between you and your daughter, and to help them to be in no doubt whatsoever that you are 100% on their side and that you will always be there for them 100% in any way you can. I think it’s likely that your daughter is feeling very lonely - even though she has a family who loves her so much. Sometimes being there for our children, letting them know that we will always be there for them no matter was, is the best we can do. Gentle encouragement to get her to come out with you or do something she enjoys if possible. Is there anything she enjoys that isn’t related to her phone? Would she like to travel somewhere or go on holiday - to get away for a while? Sometimes a complete change or scene or routine can be helpful.