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Failure to launch - Adult Aspie son will not abide by any rules. After 3 years feeling very depressed.

NAS86451

To cut a long story short, Son has Aspergers and strong ADHD.  Made it my lifes mission to keep him on the straight and narrow and stopped working quite early on to get him through school and Uni and he has come out the other side and is working as a Developer for a large professional services firm.  Probably was a helicopter Mum in hindsight but it was so important to me that he could be independent and happy.

Cut to the chase, while he was at Uni, I backed off as much as I could, trying little by little to let him start to take more and more responsibility but this was limited as he didnt and still doesnt want to take anything on.

Current situation he is 23 and pays a nominal rent on the basis he helps out a little with a couple of things (Mainly because his Dad is 68 and still works full time) (Mowing lawns, doing some ironing) and I am semi disabled with various health problems.  We had an agreement that he could stay home after Uni (He has a gaming addiction I believe) was that he continue to take his ADHD meds and that Monday to Thursday he packs up gaming at 10 and is in his bed by 10.30 with the light off.  Well I knew when he agreed to it, it would be problematic and it is.  He nearly always works from home, that way he can game if its quiet at work and can game immediately 5pm hits.  He has twice been in trouble at work for sleeping in repeatedly after gaming all night.  We have moved all the gear into a separate room that he is supposed to come out of and we lock up.    Again this was the agreement I asked both my husband and him to abide by so that we could all keep functioning as a family.  My husband is supposed to ensure he gets out and locks it up except he hasnt, despite the trouble he has been in at work my husband always indulges him and lately my son has not been to bed before midnight.  And at various times until 4 in the morning.  My husband routinely lies to me about having locked things up or telling me he's gone to ped when he is in bed gaming on a laptop.

He has no single friend, he does not help out at home at all even if we beg him to help.  He sleeps every weekend, public holiday etc when he is not working till about 2 PM, then he watches anime on satellite until 5 or 6.  He doesnt shower or shave.  His gaming room and his bedroom are filthy enough for us to get cockroaches.  He has a license but virtually never drives, orders uber eats every lunchtime or just tells Dad what to buy for him.

My husband will not apply any pressure to him.  He serves him food in front of the PC and then dessert and whatever else he shouts out his orders for.  For the sake of my daughter and my sanity, we have begged my husband to help us change the situation, either he goes or my husband tries to actively get him to uphold the rules.  If he is opposed on any issue no matter how minor he is really nasty.  Like when he got a formal warning for repeatedly sleeping throughout the day.  We sat him down and said this has to stop or you will lose your job.  And he didnt stop so I kept trying to get him to stick to something near the ten O'clock curfew. Argues and justifies and dominates.  Calls me all the worst names under the sun and has even been violent.  Keeps telling me he will put me in a home if I dont do what he wants.  Says its his right to live as he wants and I have repeatedly said, of course it is but you cant do this here.  You have responsibilities as well as rights. You can go out on your own (His bank account is brimming with money) or you agree to the conditions we told you we required when you finished Uni.

I found a nice studio apartment for him near his work and told my husband we had to get him into it.  He was capable of all these things, can cook, was helpful, could clean fabulously but now he is a slouched, unkempt,pot bellied loner who is throwing his life away.  My husband says if we make him responsible for himself he will lose his job but this is exactly why I stayed home from work with him and kept him on the straight and narrow so that he could succeed whereas my husband has always wanted to give him everything and treat him like a piece of glass  - all 6'3" of him.  In my view, going out on his own is exactly what he needs, he will not change unless forced to.  He has all the skills he needs but will not try.

Long story short, he has driven a wedge between my husband and I after 35 years of marriage and if I'd have to guess I would describe them as co dependant.  My daughter and I are also rans and our opinions and needs are completely ignored.  My husband expects my daughter to run around and do all the things that need doing around the house even though she is at Uni and has a part time job.  He sees no dichotomy in the differential treatment and is always on her back because she is not doing enough or not doing things right.

Within a year I will likely be wheelchair bound but I currently feel like I am not having any of my needs met and I am powerless in this situation.  I am consigned to one room of the house and ignored by my son completely apart from occasional abuse.  I am substantially ignored by my husband who sees his responsibility as being his work and then providing for my son.  I have become an additional burden he doesnt have time for. My daughter spends as much time as possible not here as it's dysfunctional and will finish Uni and be gone soon enough (Sadly).

I dont want to live like this or to spend my final ten years like this.  I feel really defeated as a Mum to see him throw all his chances away (he doesnt walk more than a few dozen metres a day) and as an individual I feel betrayed by my husband and really lonely.  My son is convinced I only intervene from time to time because I'm a control freak. We used to have a good relationship even though he has always been difficult but now I just feel like he loves nothing more than to show me that I have no place or power in my own home.  I really dont know what to do.

I got him an Aspergers life coach and he tossed it in after 3 sessions.  Saying it was a waste of time.  He has recently stopped taking his ADHD meds regularly.  I would leave and take my daughter with me if I could but in my circumstances both financially and practically it isnt easy to do.

What can I do?  I try and forget about the chaos going on around me in my home and spend my time actively diverting my attention from the situation I am in but every few months it catches up with me and I get really depressed and/ or anxious about the future particularly my sons.  I always knew it would be a challenge to get him to live a 'typical' life but we worked so hard towards it and its all slipping away.

What do I do?  Is this typical Aspie behaviour?   i know other Aspies of his age and they are all doing better, some of them are competing internationally and others have girlfriends and a small social life. Is there potentially something else we can try?  Is it possible my son has other issues that are undiagnosed?  How do I get my husband to stop enabling him?   What should I do about my NT daughter?  She hates her brother and is pretty disappointed in her Dad/  Would family counselling help?  With or without my son?

Dont mean to be such a Debbie Downer but sometimes feel quite morose about the situation.  Any suggestions welcome.

  • in reply to Nexus11

    You know what I'm going to agreee to this,

    @ the original poster :  sounds like he feels like he can mooch off you and hubs and he doesn't even question it because that's how it was always been, but now he is 23 and needs to find out for himself that it's work that keeps the roof over your head not gaming. He needs to have the chance to see what life is really like with no safety net (a world he inevitably has to face when you and your husband pass away eventually) so he can learn to hold himself accountable and find a routine that actually works for him to achie both independance and lifestyle in a balance.

     My dad kicked me out at the age of 22, and I had to hit the ground running, it was difficult, but it got easier, even with the mental health issues and a period of substance abuse, even though it wasn't done well when it started it was the best thing for me in the long run I think because you just can't stay a child forever you have to find your feet by hook or by crook sooner or later. I know it sounds really harsh, but at his age you should start transitioning from room and board to the emotional support and financial advice on the end of a phone call. (Something I never got. So you'd be doing the healthy version of what my dad did.)
    Set him up with a therapist if you need to (as others already said sounds like there is some big stuff that needs tackling), but if he doesn't stand on his own two feet as a young man he will have to as an older man and by then he will have been so used to having everything done for him he won't be able to cope in your absence after you pass away. It's something I now have to balance with my son, if I have done my job right by the time I pop off my mortal coil he wont need need me any more.

  • The great thing about university in terms of living away from home is it gives you the experience exactly when you most get to see the advantages you get from it. You're thrown together in close proximity to other people also on their own looking for friends. The social seen is kind of catered for you with clubs and events etc. Suddenly having your own space looks more attractive when you're hooking up with girls in freshers week and need somewhere to take them or want to organise a house party. My experience of uni wasn't like that. I lived at home with my parents and tbh I think that might have been a mistake.

    What benefit does your son derive from his own apartment? The only liberty it would bring him in his current life style is liberty from being nagged about his gaming, housework and hygiene. I'm sorry you may think it's get him a house, fix his hygiene etc and then maybe he'll get a social life but I'm telling you really it probably has to be the other way around. Until he has a social life / love life living alone will just make him lonelier and more insular and all these other problems will get worse.

    About the only way to do both at the same time would be to have him move in with someone else. A friend, preferably single with a very active social life. Someone liable to invite him out places or invite others to the house.

  • in reply to NAS86451

    There is a youtube channel called Healthy Gamer, you might find that worth checking out.

  • It sounds to me like he's very depressed and anxious.  Not sleeping, not taking care of his body, not engaging with others and the state of his room are all indicators of this. Gaming is often a way to escape when life feels too hard.  

    You said he has zero friends, but that can be a very lonely experience. A few autistic people are happy with situation, but for many (including myself) not being able to connect with others and the isolation that we experience is one of the hardest parts of being autistic.

    It might be time to try to reconnect with him on a personal level.  Find out how he's feeling and what kind of help he needs.

  • in reply to NAS86451

    PS:  The PDA likelihood also explains the failure of the ASD life coach.

  • in reply to Nexus11

    Thanks to all of you who have replied/ discussed.

    This has been so valuable because reading some of your comments made me look at things like 'control' abd do more reading.  

    I had never heard of PDA before and when I looked into it, especially generalised behaviour was him to a T right from even before his ASD diagnosis.  It explains so much.

    I think the goal is to achieve independence in a multifaceted way

    ::  look at Family Counselling Lite (How does a family function, how do we hold up our end of things but not too specific - more food for thought and strategies particularly for him but global emphasis not who is right and wrong)

    -Look at what works with him and in what circumstances.  He tends to be very successful when given structure (and my husband is a big issue here) - he had to have structure at Uni and while he made it hard for himself especially the first year, with each passing year he got better and better - because he had to.  At Work, he has a new boss so when this issue came up again, she gave him his warning but set up a lot of systems to keep him on track.  He has to email her if he is not at his PC working at 9.00 and provide a reason, he has various targets and timetables to keep and he has 2 different kinds of mentor, one personal and one professional with personal conversations once a week minimum.  He seems to be thriving despite the lack of sleep.

    Like many PDAs he has good superficial social skills and is quite likeable.  Also when he applies himself he is both very capable and hard working so the screw ups have now turned out to his advantage.  They think he is great whereas before he was being allowed/ encouraged to languish.

    Trouble is the behaviour at home hasnt got better but I think this needs to be tackled through family counselling, him and us understanding more about PDA and how to handle it and TBH, for my husband to stop encouraging his dependency.

    My son and I have always had a generally good relationship because I found that before I got more sick, I could keep him on track and manage him fairly easily although it does require lots of patience for obfuscations and excuses.  So I need to get somehow more involved but in the same matter of fact/ matter of routine way and praise him a lot and give him small milestones/rewards even if he is an adult.

    Finally we need to look at the gaming addiction angle and whether it is feeding this and especially how he sees gaming as a realistic social and 'whole' life.  Maybe it is and we need to better understand, maybe it's not.

    Ultimately working towards a place where he has to become fully independent.  I have no doubt he can do it but he has to want to and understand his own behaviours and we need to work on any anxiety that he feels around that and encourage him in finding better ways of expressing it.  

    So thank you all for responsing, it has been very rewarding and I can now see a path through.  It's classic, understand the problem, enhance the good behaviour and underplay or divert from the bad.

    Binky

  • in reply to VLD

    That's just my five cents VLD, suggestions. Independence is the ideal, but... 

    All these things depend upon the nature of the disability, and it may be a good idea to get an expert opinion on that

    Accommodation does depend on the tenant bring able to produce the rent and pay for things regularly, and if there is a strong chance of their losing their job, getting sanctioned etc...... 

    Assisted accommodation may be the answer, so it's probably worth seeing what the alternatives are...

  •  has said the solution is for the child to leave home. We are in the process of doing this for our daughter. We have contacted social services and noe have a carers assessment for me and a care assessment fir our daughter. This should give support to us and her but it has taken nearly a year to go through the process.

  • in reply to Nexus11

    Thank you. We are in a similar situation with our daughter. I always thought my wife was too soft on her but I have come to realise that my wife has been right all along. The problem is the mire you push the more you get push back. It seems to be control issue. For an adult child living at home there is little control of your life. Also, my wife is restricted by a medical condition so also has a lack of control. The solution seems to be for the child to leave home.

    See my other message.

  • in reply to GuybrushThreepwood

    Also just wondering did he disclose his diagnosis to work? I know a lot of people don’t want to due to fear of discrimination but if the employer is understanding they can make reasonable adjustments. My uncle works remotely in IT support for a company and they don’t care what time he works as long as he puts in X amount of hours per day

  • Sounds like he has ADHD related sleep issues, the circadian rhythm for sleep often runs from the early hours of the morning to midday/early afternoon. My husband can’t force himself to sleep if he’s in bed before midnight unless he’s really tired, he also sleeps in until 1 on his days off. Yes it’s really annoying especially when there’s things be done or places to go but I really don’t think he can help it but he’s on a massive long waiting list for ADHD assessment it feels like a race between him getting help and me cracking up. which will happen first? Gaming addiction or smartphone addiction are also very common in ADHD because of the generation of dopamine in the brain. My husband didn’t get a smartphone for a long time because he knew he’d want to spend every spare second on one and guess what he does when he’s not asleep or at work. ASD and ADHD are usually genetic I’m wondering if your husband is seeming enabling because he is the same or similar and is understanding why he is like he is? I know you want the best for him but forcing him to be neurotypical is likely to end with him burnt out if it’s taking a lot of energy and effort, maybe he already is in burnout as you said he previously looked after himself and helped out or maybe he is depressed and needs some medical help? Sometimes being alone will force people to look after themselves and their home because there’s no one else there to do it so moving him out to somewhere nearby may help but it is possible the opposite would happen and he’d spend all day gaming and lose his job. I don’t think your idea of family counselling is a bad idea or therapy just for yourself as you seem very stressed. Would you be able to get a cleaner or some kind of carer or support worker for yourself? Even if it’s just temporary while you turn things around. Your husband definitely needs to make an effort to understand how you are feeling about everything and your future, have you tried  writing him a letter if it’s proving difficult to talk about it

  • It sounds as though the best thing would be to get him into accommodation of his own. 

    He may well interpret your approach, the curfews and so on as controlling behaviour, and  resent any expectations being placed on him. 

    He does sound like a truly addicted gamer, so the concern about where this might lead him is justified. Is your husband aware of how gaming can be an addiction? Perhaps that is the angle to tackle there, in getting any kind of help and advice, especially if the hygiene issues are getting overwhelming.