Autisic shutdown or severe social anxiety?

Jenny Butterfly said:

felt I had little - no control and in which others were in a position of power over me. 

Yep. That's how I feel in medical situations, and this exactly what results.

Sounds like mother's description of me in medical situations as a kid. It's a shut down, often people are mute at that point. Probably not taking in any verbal information either.

Talk to her away from the situation to check she isn't experiencing medical phobia behind that. I was. And now older, that's rendered me practically impossible to treat.

Fire alarms are horrible, I found fire alarms in school to be quite stressful too.

If your mutism is after stressful events, it is probably a shutdown. This is because it is a response to temporary overwhelm. Whereas with SM, the mutism is caused by severe anticipatory anxiety. I hope this explanation gives you some answers.

 I experienced mutism after fire alarms before and I thought it was a shutdown because my brain couldn’t process all the information and therefore mutism was a perfectly logical way of reducing demands and processing load.

Maybe you can relate to this?

Well now i am very confused. i experience exactly the same after fire alarms and stressful situations and always assumed this was a shutdown but after reading your responses i am suddenly questioning myself.

I hope you find some answers, let me know if you do

You are very welcome. 

Catlady31 said:

I have heard and read of situational mutism but it seems to take her sometime to recover and she will be quiet for a little while before she is back to her normal self. She is very outgoing at home.

This is common in people with SM. Very chatty in one setting and mute or very quiet in another.

Catlady31 said:

She is nearly 11 and has always seemed shy, not naturally wanting to talk to people.  She even struggles talking to grandparents. It is also the same if out shopping and someone tries to talk to her. 

This is also common in people with SM, some people can struggle with talking to grandparents or even people outside of the immediate family. I would definitely say the mutism or difficulty speaking is anxiety related.

Catlady31 said:

Regarding how she is feeling when this happens, she doesn't like talking about how she feels. If I ask, she will seem annoyed and either make a noise or divert the subject completely, not even acknowledging I have asked her about how she is feeling although it's obvious she is struggling.

Just so you know after periods when I have been mute I don’t like talking about because it brings the anxiety/stress back. She may avoid talking about the subject because she feels the same way.

 I hope my response is helpful.

This sounds very familiar to me and I'm now wondering whether it could be relevant to my sons too.  Anyway, I'm just "dropping in" to echo your thoughts on situational mutism. 

My own experience is also that it is fear/anxiety-related and, looking back, I'd say it was usually triggered by being in a situation in which I felt I had little - no control and in which others were in a position of power over me.  So, for example, I'd find teachers and doctors very scary and would often clam up, in spite of having lots to say.  Being in different surroundings, such as a GP's surgery waiting room or even just a shop, would also trigger it, I think as my feelings of certainty and safety became eroded.  

So I would say there may be a need to zoom in on the specific environments and people in which the mutism occurs and see whether anything can be altered to make them feel safer and less anxiety-inducing.

For myself, I still clam up sometimes but then open up in situations where there isn't some kind of power differential at play.   So I'm much quieter, sometimes very obviously with people asking me "What's wrong?", with anyone in any position of authority over me or with any expectations of me that I couldn't know in advance or in any environments which seem too formal or official or unpredictable.  Back home I'm relieved of all of this and can just be me.   

I think I'll see whether I can find any good resources on this.    

This twitter poll should help! https://twitter.com/AnnMemmott/status/1546144469094891523

This is an Autistic Academic who asked AutisticTwitter :) 

The reason for this is due to THE very fundamental Neurological difference between Autistic and Non-Autistic. From what's understood so far, most humans are designed to be 'wired' neurologically with strong connexions in their language and semiotic (let's call them) compartments of the brain. This means they receive coded language and signals in society which use all kinds subtleties with symbols and linguistics. With these 'signals' containing 'codes', they learn your fundamental Defence Mechanisms as Freud, Lacan, and all others discovered to help suppress inappropriate instinct and turn them into mature behaviours. Language can be fluid. Most importantly, this keeps the tribe together and so one might do anything to stay included, affirmed, approved of. 

Now, Autistic neuro-wiring is different! We might have strong connexions in our picture-thinking and analytical parts. The ones that use formulas to reason or can see in detail in the imagination. We don't receive the codes to dull our senses (in some papers it's discovered we have different beta wave oscillations which keep our senses alert). In ancient tribal situations we would be 1 in 40, not worried too much about hanging out around the fire, instead, sitting off with the Sage studying all kinds of 'alchemy' or medicine to keep the tribe alive. 

More research has shown the brain is resourceful and will compartmentalise to focus 'battery' use. Which means, in hyper-analytical mode, one might not have these wild firings in the language compartments. Once the intense and very innate problem-solving machines in the brain have reached their conclusions or filed notes for the day, the brian might allow more 'traffic' back to the language-y bits. 

I am actually working on compiling all this and publishing it. But try deep problem-solving while being social and you might realise it's quite difficult. Most individuals need 'a moment to focus' on a difficult task. It's how the brain works. 

I'm going to add that matters which Create Anxiety or Stress or a heightened need to be Diligent, when autistic one may either become incredibly clumsy, foggy, overwhelmed, or go silent. It simply depends on personality and if they've been taught how to work with their strengths and be mindful of their limits. Edit: Allowing for Silence is the healthy route! 

Thank for your reply.  I would like to find out what is making her react like this like you said, is she unable to speak or does she not know what to say.  Thank you.

Thank you for your reply.  I have heard and read of situational mutism but it seems to take her sometime to recover and she will be quiet for a little while before she is back to her normal self. She is very outgoing at home.

Regarding how she is feeling when this happens, she doesn't like talking about how she feels. If I ask, she will seem annoyed and either make a noise or divert the subject completely, not even acknowledging I have asked her about how she is feeling although it's obvious she is struggling.

She is nearly 11 and has always seemed shy, not naturally wanting to talk to people.  She even struggles talking to grandparents. It is also the same if out shopping and someone tries to talk to her. 

I am going to try and ask her again how she feels at these times and maybe she could write down what happens to help us understand more.

I don’t think it is a shutdown, as they often occur after a meltdown, or after a stressful situation. In these situations, you might still talk, but words may be slow as the brain isn’t really engaged. I can’t really explain it lol,

I was thinking mutism, due to not being able to speak, as opposed to feeling awkward and not knowing what to say. Sometimes I know what I want to say in these important appointments, but as soon as I’m asked something I didn plan for for example, I get tongue tied, and it’s difficult to get the words out.

Any anxiety making situation could trigger the mutism. I was like that a child, but people thought I was just shy, when in fact, I can recall nit being able to speak, even thought I needed to.

Hello, this must be a difficult situation for you and your daughter to deal with. 

Have you heard of Situational Mutism? Situational Mutism is a severe anxiety disorder which means someone can’t speak/communicate in certain situations or with specific people. Your daughter may be experiencing this.

What are the expectations of her at health appointments? Does this only happen in relation to health appointments and school?

Environments such as doctors surgeries/hospitals can be incredibly anxiety inducing for many autistic people because of the sensory experience/chaos and uncertainty in terms of expectations. School is not usually an autistic friendly environment either, so she may shutdown because of sensory overload for example or may become mute in anticipation of the demands of the day.

Can she explain how she felt when she can speak to you freely again?

I hope the information I have provided is useful for you and your daughter.

 I am sorry if I can’t be of more help.