Lying & controlling impulses - urgent advice please

Hi,

I am going to split this answer in a few sections as there clearly are numerous issues needing a few different approaches.

As you say, teens often do lie but she's at an age where some of these are not your problem or business so no need for you to do anything to or for her re certain ones. Try to let these ones go:

Tales about sexual experiences - normal

Exaggerating popularity - normal

Different online personas - normal (teens experiment with different ones while discovering who they are. With ASD this perhaps could be more pronounced).

Saying yes I'd lunch - normal teen way of saying please get off my back. (It happens in eating disorders too but unless there's other reasons to worry about an eating disorder then don't worry and asking/ finding out will never help in either case.

Next:

Online sexual behaviour: this is very common in teens (my friend did back in the day but it went no further so no harm came) but of course concerning. The main thing to do is not nag and always be approachable and nonjudgemtal - that way if anything happens, she has a safety net in the form of adults who can help. I'm reminded of the book "finding Stevie" by Cathy Glass a true story which got really ugly so may be worth her while reading but don't force it. If you read it don't focus on the scariness but on what can be learned from how the adults in it helped.

Questions - I don't ask these to jedge but these are important ings to ask oneself to see where adjustments and improvements can be made:

How did you find out all the above? Unless she told you herself, you may be invading her privacy beyond at is appropriate at 17. I know it's tempting to spy when worried but it must not be done and will only cause reactive distrustful behaviour.

Another question: why have you taken her phone? Again too much for a 17 year old. Especially if she's socially isolated - it is vital at her age in the modern world to be able to socialise normally and communicate better. Please return it.

If you keep going that far with snooping and confiscation, you might find yourself guilty of coercive control which is a crime under domestic violence law.

Next question: you say struggle? So you were physically pulling the phone from each other? Confiscation does not work this way so unfortunately this is actual theft at that age. This means she did nothing wrong by telling her tutor or friend. Whether her story to her friend was accurate or not, the friend's response was responsible - if you heard a lady tell you about a husband getting physical and you didn't know whether she was truthful, isn't that what you'd tell her? So that is a compassionate friend who she should keep especially if she has trouble keeping friends.

Clearly she is upset by however you have behaved so whatever needs to happen on her end, you on your end need to self-examine and think about how to change your approach and or attitude. Bear in mind most things in life are not black & white. Perspective differs so what may not be intended as abuse on your end may feel like abuse on her end and it doesn't mean either of you is lying. Also ASD usually comes with sensory processing differences so something light to you may be very painful to her. Family therapy as mentioned above is definitely the way to go. It's not about parent shaming so don't be afraid and get that referral going A.s.a.p

Moving on to money:

If she is dyscalculic, difficulty with money would be no surprise. I think people can't learn with invisible money so use cash and give her a weekly allowance so she will have to make it last the week. If she's not useto is since early idhood, it will takplenty of time anmistakes to learn.

If she is shutting down around you, it commonly means being afraid or intimidated so this will again require change of approach and attitude on your end. Again family therapy is vital and also individual psychotherapy for her.

With all these things explaining each issue you mention, the roots don't seem to point to impulse problems nor any other disorder. The existing diagnoses plus family, relationship and emotional issues would explain away everything mentioned.

So here's the issues with with next steps to take:

Certain life skills: Occupational therapy (no teen wants to listen to their parents so better from someone specially trained in these who she finds good)

The relationship between you: Family therapy is vital

Your difficulty with her: self-reflection, techniques like mindfulness to help with letting go, learning and practising listening types and changing certain behaviours to allow her privacy without snooping and to make her own mistakes while you're available when she asks but not hovering.

Her emotions and diffilculty with you: individual counselling psychotherapy. If the therapist knows cbt that can be a plus but cbt on its own will not be what she needs.

It is vital that the therapists do not report back to you what she's saying. Do not worry if it will be truthful or not. If anything is leaked to you, she will never feel able to be honest with them and will get worse and rebel further. With people she can trust, your will make progress especially with the positive traits you mention already inside her. People commonly find that with psychotherapies, they find they get to know and understand themselves and their life and others better which leads to personal growth, maturation and easing of personal issues and unhealthy coping mechanisms.

There's no harm in getting psychotherapy or couple therapy yourselves too during this stressful time. We could all do with therapy!

I have experience from many different angles covering most if not all of these issues so I can tell you there is hope. First stop is your GP for each of those referrals.

Best of luck to you, your husband and children!

How much safeguarding do you have around the internet? That would be my number one port of call. She is vulnerable and needs to have you exercise as much as you can. Have a look at "Get safe online"

She can have a phone but just one that will make phone calls or texts only. There is no need for her to anything else on there if she can't keep safe with it. A phone should be there as a safety aspect not another source of danger.

Her friend may have made the best suggestion based on the lies she had told them. Her friend was trying to keep her safe so i wouldn't blame the friend at all.

I wonder if she needs more stimulation in her life. It sounds like she is sociable and ready to have friendships as she is nearly an adult. She is clever and it needs to be put to good use.

People lie when they feel they have very little in their lives and need to create an alternative to keep them interesting to others. It causes low self esteem and they believe people won't like them without the lies. Things like soap operas and influencers can seem real life and what people want to see to keep people interested.

I think you would like her to grow and mature but you're not offering, or haven't found the right way for her. She's not ready for the big wide world yet so don't offer her this. Instead look for groups or volunteering or even a job where she can come into her own.

I think Scott book is hopeful.  I suggest the locus of lies in more likely with yourself than the daughter.  Scott Pecks book I recall has a chapter on a parent who refuses to face their loneliness and the harm and evil and lies the daughter experienced because of this.  This may or may not be your story as a parent, with the clinical fixations you have and tha lack of privacy your daughter is subject to.

You may have munchausen by proxy.  Your daughter is 17 and you list off clinical disorders and know all she does in her spare time and use of money.  You also claim she is not herself except when you see it.  You may have a poor relationship with your spouse and now your 17 years old is growing up and separating; flagging up lies and disorders is a way of gaining attention and commitment from the medical and online community and also the spouse.  You may be best facing your loneliness and not subjecting your daughter to medical interests.  It maybe the title to your enquiry 'Lying & controlling impulses' is a massive projection of your compulsive capacity to both lie and control your spouse, your daughter, clinicians and the online community.  With endless interests that revolve, like a boomerang, around illness, advice and intervention.  I wish you the best.

I'd like some feedback if you do check it out.

I like to give out quality and useful advice, (I've received plenty of the other kind in my life) and it is always good to get a bit of feedback form time to time, particularly when I've weighed in on a serious matter like this one. 

Noting the reply above, where a referral to an external agency is recommended, I'd still recommend trying to get a private DIY solution to this issue, if you can. Lying really is a very poor and imperfect solution to life's problems. Once a person grasps that simple basic fact, the rest starts to fall into place. Some poor people never do, and over time their life experience just keeps deviating from reality, which is really, really sad to see form an outside perspective. Some lies are easily as destructive as drugs or a gunshot wound...

I see this is old but I recommend a self-referral to Adult services with your County Council. In North Yorkshire it’s called Health and Adult Services for individuals who have disabilities.  Your daughter’s lack of learning from experiences is common autism trait and leaves her extremely vulnerable.  If you’re at a loss I would go back to the further education college and asked to speak to the special educational needs coordinator “SEN-Co” to

(a) nudge you in the right direction with accessing the county council adult services. NB: if she has a special educational needs plan then she may still qualify under child services until age 21, however, even then you need to get her on the waiting list to access adult services because she will need long-term support and help with independent living at some point if you are you spell I no longer able to provide the level of support you do now and/or she continues to resist your input.

(b) help at college with ensuring her tutors understand her vulnerability (due to extensive social naivete and not learning from experiences or being able to generalise lessons, especially in the social realm).  no disrespect to the tutors but most teacher training programs over the decades have not provided education about the presentation of autism —especially for those individuals who seem a little socially adept (possibly called Aspergers or sometimes so-called “high functioning autism“ or “level one autism“) who, on the surface, can appear Neurotypical. 

Thank you yes I've wondered about another disorder but I don't know which one!  I truly am trying to be light touch and allow her to grow up and make her mistakes as that's the way most of us learn.  I just left this a bit long and trusted a bit too much and have been scared by what I've discovered.   I think it just added another level of complexity I hadn't realised was there - the different personalities (yes agree this is masking), lies to deliver on people's expectations (e.g. teachers) and behaviour for attention I expect as she's been too much alone.  The not understanding consequences is hard to know how to address - I agree about the money - we were just tryng to teach her budgetting (well that was a fail!).  She's great in so many ways I just don't know how to keep her safe and help her navigate this new growing up phase.   Hey ho, we will work it out I'm sure.  Thanks for your kindness.

Thankyou so much for sharing and giving me some hope - I will check out the book.

She is still young so she may still be experimenting or she may have a different issue. A book I've read to try and help me understand and deal with this stuff, is "People of the Lie" by M.Scott Peck who is an american psychiatrist. I'd read it first then get her to read it...

I was dead lucky, I started out that way (mostly, I tended to keep my fantasy stories to myself, I've always valued "truth" because of it's relative rarity and durabilty. I like my savings to be held in gold for the same reason) but I lied and stole and "made trouble" with gusto for a while. 

The most destructive thing though, is not lying per-se but wilfully believing your own or other peoples lies and holding them up as reality. If you can teach her one thing, it must be to avoid "mendacity". That is cancer of the soul.

I've been there, I walk the walk, I wear the badge. Trying not to be a liar, yet still getting along in this day and age, is a hard but rewarding path to follow, and very suitable for us Autists as we are generally very detail oriented..

She may well have another disorder, but my first thought was the lying is more down to her trying to fit in, than anything else. Changing who she is to each person she meets, and making a new situation or life for that?

Yes, she maybe putting herself at risk, but you’re doing all you can. You’re encouraging her to do the right thing, and intervening when you need to. However, there comes a time when you have to let go. Let her make mistakes, and you support her through the aftermath. In time, she will come to the right conclusions, but for now she thinks she knows it all. 

They get older, and you know that despite their mature outlook and capabilities, they’re still vulnerable and naive, and it’s hard. The amount of situations I’ve had to get my daughter out of is beyond beleif!

Regarding money, it’s best to spread things out. Get her a prepaid travel card for trains or buses for when she needs it. If she needs money for items, I would buy them from your own account. By all means leave some money in her account, but if she spends it, she’ll have to wait for the next payment and go without in the meantime. It’s tough, but she’ll soon start to realise…

Thank you for your reply but I'm not sure family therapy is the answer.  My daughter is placing herself at risk and does not understand the consequences to her actions.  It's that I believe we need to help her with.   She doesn't understand risk and living in a fantasy world and lying to everyone will not help her make good real friends or engage properly with the world around her.

How about looking into family therapy? That way you and your husband can compassionately challenge things you don't agree with in a safe environment. Family therapists may also do one-to-one sessions with each family member so everyone gets to be heard on an individual level too. 

But it's worth getting your daughter's consent before signing up for any kind of therapy. These things don't tend to be successful unless everyone is actively engaged.

Best of luck to you and your family.