Research into pre-natal causes of autism

Thanks for sharing that experience Laddie. The more stories like that, that I read, the more I think we should always think about the nature plus nurture conumdrum with more patience and understanding.

Hi Recombinantsocks,

You make some very valid observations.

My mother was the youngest of ten children brought up in a farm labourers house in what must have been a very difficult environment (a relic of the feudal system). My grandmother was exactly the same as I found out later. So you are correct in saying there is a family history. I remember aunts and uncles who it was said were "having problems".

She also lived through WW2 and served as a nurse as far as I know. She also gave up work to nurse my fathers mother till she died in our home. I could tell the stress of that was a constant source of friction between my mother and father.

So yes I confirm there are mitigating circumstances in my case, I doubt I could have coped in that environment with those responsibilities.

Thanks anyway for your thoughts.

Take care, Laddie.

Hi Laddie,

There are a number of points in your post that highlight how difficult it is to separate nature, nurture and the impact of external factors like environmental chemicals.

I would guess that your mother had some sort of personality issues that lead her to be obsessive, addictive and poor at being a mother. Autistic genes are likely to be a factor and she may have had a harsh childhood herself. It is very difficult to work out which came first, in these situations, and I suspect that your problems have been compounded by her limited abaility to be a loving mother. You have to trace it back further though and analyse what her parents were like and why they were like that. There is little point attributing blame in any of this, we (and they) are all victims of circumstance.

You describe yourself as having an addictive personality. Is that different to the obsessive and narrow focus that is a feature of a lot of autistic peoples lives? A lot of us have obsessions. These are often used to provide evidence of the disorder during the diagnostic process. I suspect that some issues with alcohol and nicotine may be more related to the stress that a lot of autistic people find themsleves in. Again, it is hard to work out what is a response to a situation and what is an inborn personality trait.

In all of this, I try to understand all of the issues and, when I have enough explanations and understanding, I find it much harder to be judgemental about people's role in my downfall. Better to accept that I am what I am and move on and make the most of it.

Very interesting discussion, thanks scienceobservation.

I am not a biologist so cannot comment on your theories about viruses.

I can only recount my own experiences.

My mother was a heavy smoker and my own addiction to nicotine may well have started before I was born. This may have affected how my brain developed. I don't know.

I was born in Feb so a winter baby. May have some relevance but I have no proof.

My earliest memories are that I was afraid of my mother who had a temper. She used corporal punishment including a walking stick. She abused my father who was a mild mannered person who refused to raise his voice to her or fight back against the constant verbal abuse. I think she found that annoying.

Love was not around in our house. I have no idea what love is except what I see in the movies. For most of my life I thought sex was a substitute for love. I was wrong.

I have an addictive personality. Alcohol has been the main source of satisfaction for my brain most of my adult life. That is why I refuse to give it up. It will probably kill me or at least contribute to my death, which at my age is starting to loom large. I could never live in a nursing home which is another reason why living into old age is not attractive.

This is my evidence for my own diagnosis in addition to the AQ online test (31-35)

Take care, Laddie

NAS7937 said:

Be more sensitive please in what you post.

Seconded!

I do however expect people on this forum to be less sensitive than might be hoped. We are not good at understanding our impact on others. This is one of the signs of autism and should be expected, and allowed for, even in people who have no diagnosis!

scienceobservation said:

Hi. I'm a mum of three. We don't have autism in our family,

Is that a fact or an assumption? Have all of the ancestors of this child been scientifically tested? Can we have some evidence based discussion please? Nobody was aware of autism in my family until I got diagnosed at 56. Then, when I looked back and talked to relatives, it became clear that some of the eccentric behaviour that was a 'feature' of my father's family fitted very well with autism.

but my third son showed many of the signs at aged 3: poor eye contact, lack of vocal recognition, biting, slow to learn and write. Luckily, with loving parents and teachers he developed wonderfully and made a loving group of friends.

So, does he actually have a diagnosis or was he just different to his siblings? You make it sound as though he has "recovered" rather than having learnt some strategies for coping.

If you are a good scientist then you will be wary of "confirmation bias" and the subjectivity of a parent's view of their own child. It sounds as though you have been looking for something and then used any evidence you have looked for to confirm your fears. That isn't scientific!

At various times I have read statistics which 'show' autism more prevalent in red-heads than would be expected, that people with a squint are also more represented, also left handed people and other statistics which may or may not be true.

There have also been theories on innumberable subjects that have been put across as gospel truth and later proved to be totally without foundation.  Such things as tobacco smoke machines placed on the river Thames to revive nearly drowned people (the smoke blown up an orifice at the opposite endof the body to the mouth), items to cure hysteria in women by creating 'hysterical paroxysm' (look it up!) and scientific theories such as the Phologiston theory have all had widespread acceptance and later totally derided.

I am sure there are various conditions more prevalent in autistic people, but also prevaent to a degree in non autistic people.  I also would think that some 'link' can be found to the day of the week someone was conceived, the time of day of the event, whether the parents were in a 'stable' relationship, what they had been eating for the prevous week/month/year, the colour of the eyes of the parents, the occupation and social group, what the favourite television programmes were and whether the parents prefer popular music, classical or opera.  I am just not sure what any of this would prove and likewise not sure what the screening you suggest woud prove either.  

"Knowledge" like this can be used for some of the worst reasons as well as for reasons of good intention.

Thanks for your valued response. Absolutetely, from what I have read up on so far, the austic spectrum has always been part of the human population and some of the achievements of more famous people with autism does make you want to weep with awe and wonder at their marvel. Fact: autism has always been in the human population and always will be. The more whole communities can come together and discuss openly and with respect then so much the better. I hear your point on the genetics side and there is a strong argument for genetics. However, for example, just as a person's sexuality (phenotype expression) is determined by their genotype (genetics) there are concrete scientific studies that show that genes can be manipulated by environmental factors such as pathogen or pollution to alter phenotypic expression. Maybe we should not waste research money and just accept the above. I don't agree.

My post was concerned with research into the possible environmental factors that might cause prenatal damage such as inflammation and oxidative prenatal stress. These factors have always been around, e.g. epidemic cycles of pathogens, winter indoor air pollution, diet vitamin and mineral changes, increased traffic, lack of outdoor exposure in winter - the list goes on. Why would the risk of autism decrease in summer born babies? I think that if there are any observable environmental factors at play then they should be understood scientifically. Thank you for reading and discussing my post.

Believe me Clovis - I am so glad you were born,. THe world is made up of diverse and wonderful people like yourself. I dislike narrow-minded and bigoted people and if you include me in that then I am sorry you think that.

There are various research teams, in the UK and abroad, researching various aspects (whether causes, co-occurrence of experiential perspectives) of autism and its many manifestations. I notice that you haven't mentioned heritability/genetics in the topics you have read about. I gather that there is some evidence around the tendency for autism (and other neurodivergences) to run in families. There is also the stance that eliminating autism would be undesirable and/or impossible. Never the less, from a pure science perspective, the points you raise would be interesting to understand more in terms of research based knowledge.