Non voter

Ideally I'd support a political party to the left of a Starmer led Labour but not a Corbynite,unelectable,perpetual protest party.  It disturbs and worries me  that some on this thread are giving clear indications that  they have no problem with Labour's intended actions against the disabled and/or vulnerable. The idea that it can be deemed acceptable, because of the damage caused by 14 years of Tory ineptitude, horrifies me. Have we really sunk so low, as a nation,  that punishing those less fortunate for the behaviour of those far more fortunate is regarded as morally acceptable?

No one is saying we’re happy about it.

What we are saying is that there is no better option available and going off in the huff and not voting will mean a Tory/Reform government which would be vastly worse.

It’s just realism.

Please advise what policies of the Tory and Reform parties are worse than Labour? I think they're all as bad as each other. The reform party wanted to raise the personal tax allowance to 20K which would have helped millions of poor people. The Tories said they would raise it a bit for pensioners. Labour kept it frozen, and took away the fuel allowance for most.

Please advise what policies of the Tory and Reform parties are worse than Labour? I think they're all as bad as each other. The reform party wanted to raise the personal tax allowance to 20K which would have helped millions of poor people. The Tories said they would raise it a bit for pensioners. Labour kept it frozen, and took away the fuel allowance for most.

You can’t massively cut almost every tax and increase services.

Their own manifesto has a vague statement about “cutting government spending”.

And these are the people who told us Brexit would give us £350m a week for the NHS.

They are rich people funded by very right wing billionaires and they have absolutely no interest in improving life for ordinary people.

TheCatWoman said:

I too wonder how Reform intend to pay for all this?

An outline of this is at the end of the document here:

Reform Party policies

I too wonder how Reform intend to pay for all this?

Also what do they mean by make school ciriculum patriotic? Would that mean they would want schools to teach that Boudicca was a patriot trying to expel the evil European invaders? Or that Rome was a good thing because of all the "free trade" it bought with it?

Fine universities for political bias, so how would that effect the the teaching of philosophy, politics and economics? How about history?

I wonder how many of the people who vote Reform actually realise what they'd be voting for? Would they just listen to Farrage twaddling on about how well "we" could do? Or would they realise that they are exactly the sort of people Farrage and his ilk want to punish?

I can't find anything in their manifesto about the second one. Could you please share where you've seen that, as I'd like to read more?

I can only find references to that idea having once been floated, but since dropped.

Eg from a June 2024 Spectator article: "A decade ago, Nigel Farage and Ukip worked this out. Both shed their libertarian image and dropped talk of replacing the NHS with an ‘insurance-based model’."

They have two separate proposals.

One is tax relief on private health care.

The other is a system where people could top up their health coverage by making additional payments. Which is a good way of having a two tier service - one for the well off and another for the poor.

Deleted User said:

Require people to have additional insurance to fund the NHS but provide tax relief on it. Happy with that?

I think you've misunderstood? The policy says:

"Despite record extra funding in recent years, NHS healthcare outcomes have declined. While still free at the point of delivery, our healthcare needs major reforms to improve results and enjoy zero waiting lists."

One of the related, proposed reforms says:

"Tax Relief of 20% on all Private Healthcare and Insurance. This will improve care for all by relieving pressure on the NHS. Those who rely on the NHS will enjoy faster, better care. Independent healthcare capacity will grow rapidly, providing competition and reducing costs."

Reform Party policies

Sorry for the tone earlier Lotus .

Caught me at a bad time.

Hopefully my post about Reform’s manifesto will demonstrate why I have such contempt for them.

Sometimes evils are so great that you have to side with something that’s less bad.

And Reform and Trump really are evil. Not misguided or from a different political tradition, evil.

A, I have respect for your views but I am only putting forward alternative ideas for debate, I'm not attacking you personally. Please let's keep it calm and polite.

I have no idea if the democrats were better or worse than Trump, as I don't live in the USA and don't follow their politics. I think all politicians have their own agenda and I believe that for most of them it's not an altruistic one.

For most of my life I voted Labour but I no longer feel they represent my values enough for me to vote for them. I didn't agree with all the policies of the Tories or Reform or Liberal democrats either though, which is why I couldn't vote at the last GE.

I am at home today because of strong winds that come with a Red Warning weather alert. That is one of the reasons that carbon reduction targets and green subsidies need to stay. One doesn’t have to look far to see the impact of climate change on others - wildfires, floods, droughts, famine. The dignity and diversity of every human being matters and that is something I look for in the actions and attitudes of politicians. Without human dignity, society is on a slippery slope. 

Some highlights from Reform’s manifesto:

Tax

• Increase basic tax threshold to £20k and higher tax threshold to £70k.
• Increase inheritance tax threshold.
• Tax exempt NHS workers.
• Reduce corporation tax.
• Raise VAT threshold.
• Tax relief for private schools.

How much do you think this would cost and what would be the impact on government spending on services? It’s an uncosted fantasy that would result in massive spending cuts. Purely a carrot designed to fool people into voting for them.

NHS

• Require people to have additional insurance to fund the NHS but provide tax relief on it. Happy with that?

Benefits

• Completely remove unemployment benefits after 4 months

Environment

• Remove carbon reduction targets
• Scrap green subsidies

Culture

• Fine universities for “political bias”
• Make school curriculum “patriotic”
• Ban teaching of “gender ideology” and “critical race theory”
• Abolish all diversity,  equality and inclusion roles and regulations

Other

• Leave European Convention on Human Rights
• Quit the World Health Organisation

In a society that has lost its moral compass, harsh actions based on the truth and based on reality are required to restore the standards of morality back to acceptable levels - this is the very reason why I am staunchly uncompromising in my absolute beliefs away from deceptive “democracy” that are not in the best interests of the poor and vulnerable in our society and which only enable the abusive upper classes to become even more so 

Wow, just wow. Not even going there.

That sounds exactly like someone claiming the democrats were as bad as Trump.

It was the Tories that created this mess. They’ve been in power for over a decade FGS. And Reform is the party where all the Tories who thought Brexit wasn’t extreme enough went. 

Nigel Farage FGS