World War Three? Or summit else?

Iain, Rome was a failing state before Christianity was adopted, there were so many rebellions, so many emporors only lasted a few months. Britain was a failed state long before the official legionary exit date of 410 CE.

A lot of the current trouble in the middle east is due to colonialism, at the end of WWs1 and 2 the Allies carved up territories on a map, without regard to natural boundaries like rivers of mountain ranges, let alone the lands that peoples had traditionally lived in and basically made new countries and installed leaders who were compliant with western aims. The same happened in Africa too, look at a map anytime you see a straight line denoting a border, then you're looking at at something created by someone with a map and a ruler.

History needs revising, I remember when we were being taught that peoples didn't move beyong their modern political boundaries, not only were those boundaries and countries not in existance at the time, but why should people be still? Why has it taken so long for it to be recognised that the Vikings "discovered" America and not Christpher Columbus? So much of what we call history is a set of excuses to justify slavery, colonialism, asset stripping and a whole load more abuses, the consequenses of which we're still living with.

I do get where you're coming from about, I presume, reparations to countries exploited by European Empires. I think one of the issues is that of class, working class British people saw very little of the benefits of empire and that isn't recognised by our former colonies, I think a more honest conversation is needed. As for things like the Elgin Marbles,why not make copies and give them back? It's not like we can't make brilliant copies of things now, nor is it like a lot of what we see in museums aren't copies anyway with the originals being to fragile to go on display.

I Sperg said:

one at least

I do like to see that level of optimism in relation to such testy matters!

Those of us who are interested in the generality of these type of matters (for better or worse) have just seen the true meaning of a lightening "hot war" in action = no one saw in coming at all, it was all over within 2 weeks, and no one is sure whether it will be prove to have been a "less worse" or "worse" outcome than the uncomfortable status quo that existed before it started.

The human world is mental and unpredictable.  World affairs at the moment look like some sort of dystopian comicon theme park, to me?  My "suspension of disbelief" is being challenged by reality these days.....and I am finding it rather novel that way around! 

That's a very fair point indeed.

Since one at least is usually in dock expect that to be a priority target in a hot war. .

Was it supposed to be funny?

I totally disagree with your last paragraph.

Erm.... I lived in the West Midlands once. 

I used to go on endless demo demonstrations in the 80's against the Bomb, visiting Upper Heyford and Greenham Common too. The nuke strength was shown up on TV almost every other evening, but when Reagan was finally shown what a nuclear war would really mean, and the MAD forma really sunk in, he rang Gorbachev.

I don't suppose the movie shown to Reagan would impress a true psychopath much though. 

I think the UK is too wedded to American interests to be much of a staunch supporter of underdogs now. Regarding bullies, the only crumb of advice ex world leader Merkel would have is not to shown certain bullies on the world stage any fear. Not even when they bring their pet do or tiger into the front room. She was too used to normal, reasonable people and negotiating them to recognise evil.

It needs very special negotiators these days to face down bullies of this magnitude now. 

So back to Russian Roulette and the threat of the Bomb. Lovely. 

I was just going to say. 

The UK doesn't stand up to bullies, it just goes along with whatever the Americans want, who interfere in global disputes for whatever other agenda suits them. Surely nobody here has forgotten Blair and the Iraq War, and those fabricated weapons of mass destruction Iraq supposedly had?

There are too many countries whosechawkish leaders are full of imperial delusions of grandeur. 

SNP flip-flopped on that issue.

We were weakened, by our Political Class; who bagged in all their dough.

America loves to view itself as 'Anti-Imperial'. And we believe they don't do irony? This led to the rest of the West becoming docile, and obedient, towards them. We've bombed other countries in the name of 'Human Rights'. How gullible were we?

We even made fighter jets for the Russians. Business is business, as far as the Plutocrats are concerned.

Matthew 24 warned us about 'The Days of Noah'. The sins of the time led to God creating the flood, which Noah himself prepared for; with the Ark.

Trump may have won the election, in the US, but the Military Industrial Complex continues; unabated.

Iain said:

but if we do not learn the lessons of the past

Now THAT is a VERY sound comment sir (in my opinion!!)

TheCatWoman said:

I must admit to not really understanding your OP at all,

I suffer from that reception (often) too.  I think it is an autistic thing?!

Desmond1979 said:

And, now, we're soft targets.

Yes, yes we are.  In the middle of a sea.  Small, and riddled with hubris!

That is a fair and reasonable, statement of fact, sir......and certainly worthy of mention!

Just a reminder that those trident submarines aren’t based in “England”

I Sperg said:

I would urge you ALL to ask yoruselves; "Iisn't it time England was NEUTRAL for a change??"

I didn't think of you as such a cheese eating surrender simian I Sperg.

Britain has few strands of international reputation left but not tolerating bullies is actually one of them. We may be  a bit toothless but it doesn't mean we should be afraid of offending anyone or be as two faced as is possible in order not to be picked on.

Russias show in Ukraine has been quite telling - their equipment is largely not as good as they claim, their troops poorly trained, and their ability to make headway agains a much weaker opponent embarrassing. Terrible management, poor kit and success has largely been at the cost of thowing men into a meat grinder to win a war of attrition.

They have been burning through their stockpiles of weapons faster than they can replace them and they are suffering from the ongoing sanctions to the point their economy is in very poor shape. Heck they have just bailed out of Syria after their backing in that theatre went badly wrong.

I don't place much faith in Russias ability to effectively launch an attack on the UK and even if they did , there would be a few big cities gone (would anyone even miss Birmingham ) but what is left would be more than capable of striking back, potentially with NATOs support.

I Sperg said:

When what I have been told comes to be public history

Can you share your source?

When what I have been told comes to be public history you will learn that a cople of months ago we came that close to a nuclear exchange with the Russian Federation. 

I believe that we are all "too close to the trees to see the wood" and that were you to be exposed to actual day to day foreitgn peopel speaking "their truth" to you most of you would be as gobsmacked as I was to hear/read how they see us British and our society.

There is a large segment of the Russian population that seems all in favour of literally washing England away into the sea, when I coem across them, on a forum on in a comment section I often ask them why they hate us so much. IF you ask enough and earnestly enough soemone eventually takes time to give a thoughful answer.

I would urge you ALL to ask yoruselves; "Iisn't it time England was NEUTRAL for a change??" Didn't we not give enough blood and treasure in the last two world wars?

When you consider that the UK army won't even fill a football stadium, our nuclear deterrent is old, leased, and with a dual key fire system half owned by the Yanks just how much can we really contribute to someone else's war against Russia? Even we are were allowed to use our trident carrying submarines, we've only ever got two serviceable at once whcih measn we can only get off a half of our trident missiles IF their subs don't get stuffed first by the Russian hunter killer sub FLEET. the RAF might have a few gravity bombs of the B61 type but bombers have to get to their release points and that is by no means a bygone conclusion... 

Of course, people always tell me we are in NATO. And an attack against the U.K. would meet robust support from NATO as we invoke article 5.

REALLY. Do you think if the RF decided to use ONE of their many Sarmat MIRV missiles that can COMPLETELY RUIN ENGLAND at a stroke, that anyone facing a similar onslaught would actually try and intervene?

Nah, they'll all shuffle their feet and look at the steaming hole in the north sea and the fragmenatry "british Isles" blame our White Toxic Christianity or some other such twaddle and get on with the realpolitic of a world where Russia is feared by all, and the USA has to choose between undeclared surrender or a nuclear war with an opponent who has shelters for 80$ of his people, (and they are practiced in using them) arguably the best anti missile systems in the world (and plenty of them) and the means to deliver multiple 100Mt nuclear warheads to the east and west coastlines simultaneously by means of their Poseiden system...

Where are our shelters, our whizz bang anti missiles, etc?

Form a geopolitical perspective England is acting like me when the other kids would set me up for a fight in school (before I wised up, ofc).

Many English people I talk to are pumped up and full of pee and vinegar about "going toe to toe in nuklear combat with those rooskies" whilst not having a clue about how very, very close we are to an almost incomprehensible lesson in leanring "when it is good to pull your neck in".   

What we should have been doing in the post brexit situation is puttng the country on a "friends to all enemy of no-one" business footing, and leveraging the remaining engineering and inventing talent to get us an exportable product or technology going, so we can import what we need. Not closing down our last big steel furnace, that's for sure! 

Too right

Al Qaida???

Scarcely libération then. 

When not creating vicious dystopias then it is about blowing ourselves and all other life to bits. Always makes me think of the Sealand woman when she proclaim that homo sapiens were an inadequate species. 

It was a tongue-in-cheek reference to President Biden.

Colonialism did help introduce skills and talents for the Natives who survived. It wasn't all doom-and-gloom. I urge you to start following Thomas Sowell; Black American Conservative, who keeps debunking the narrative of 'West is Bad'.

Desmond, can you explain to me what the benefits of colonialism and empire were?

I must admit to not really understanding your OP at all, I don't know who or what you're speaking about,who's President Saville for instance?

Desmond1979 said:

We're forced to be held responsible for something we never did, in our lifespan.

This is true, but if we do not learn the lessons of the past then we are doomed to relive them.

The lesson here is that empires are rarely good things (look at the facts of history and make your own conclusions. Consider what the British did in India - the millions left to starve - and many, many other instances of clear abuse of power.

Even when they start from noble intentions they seem doomed to corrupt over time and inevitably fall eventually. Even the mighty Roman Empire that spanned the known world eventually fell - once it adopted Christianity oddly enough although that may just be a coincidence.

When you look at the human capital (the dictionary definition is "the skills, knowledge, and qualifications of a person, group, or workforce considered as economic assets" then we are sorely lacking now - manufacturing skills are almost extinct and the knowledge and qualifications of the majority of people are nothing exceptional in the scheme of things.

As a nation the country lacks valuable skills. We also lack a work ethic to make most want to develop these never mind a mechanism to teach them or market to pay for them.

There seems way too much snowflakery in the newer generations to make us competetive with nations such as Germany or even Poland who are tougher on their workforce. What may be good for the workers is bad for the economy it seems.